I'd like to mess up some warbirds, who's with me??

Thanks Eddie

WS-J, W4964 was a G-H formation leader towards the end of the war. I suspect this would have been mainly for the blind bombing of V1 sites in 1944, and a bit beyond.

For those of you that don’t know, G-H was a navigational aid in which the aircraft transmitted a pulse, and two ground stations responded to that pulse. The gap between the two pulses was used to determine the range from the two stations, and as such, the position of the aircraft could be determined. It was far more accurate than Gee, and could be used by more aircraft than Oboe, with somewhere around the same precision.

Here’s a nice shot of a dirtied up BM597 for Taifun 😉

Yes, white shows up well at night.

Sorry.

I’m sure someone better informed will ‘illuminate’ for us.

Thanks Mark V, I am pleased to hear that Satin finish is as good.

Were the PRU blue Spitfires, etc, originally matt? That scheme looks so good in gloss, I can’t imagine it looking as good in matt paint.

Speaking of the Lancaster’s paint, why does/did it have a scheme with a white tail? Why the white? Was it based on the lead aircraft in formation or something?

Originally posted by Dave Homewood
I understand it that gloss paint is often applied nowadays to warbirds because it lasts much longer, so is much more cost efficient for the owner. And it’s easier to maintain of course.

Dave, thats a very old fashioned notion and virtually all operators of WWII warbirds in the UK have now moved to satin finish paint over the last ten years. There was a myth that only gloss paint was durable enough to protect the airframe and that was why BBMF (for example) stuck with this finish for so long until it was realised that satin paint is just as durable, has a more authentic look to it and can be just as easily kept clean. Now even the Lanc is in satin and looking all the better for it.

WWII aircraft were generally of a matt appearance (with exceptions of course) but this really is very difficult to keep clean as its rougher surface texture absorbs oil, exhaust stains and grease and makes keeping the airframe clean virtually impossible. This finish can work for static museum airframes.

Originally posted by JDK
Wanted.

Warbird graffiti artist…

You would be wanted!

It’s a nice idea, but it palls quickly. Shuttleworth’s Spit V used to have a lovely worn ‘patena’ and the B-17s for Memphis Belle and the Spitfires for Pearl Harbor were dirtied up a treat – but, to the airshow punter, they are just going to look ‘scruffy’ and in need of a clean.

We went to O/W earlier this year and the Spitfire really looked war worn and weathered and we all commented on how nice it was to see it as it should be and not in a concours condition,roll on smoke and oil stains,:)

[unless it damages the plane of course]

From Spitfire polisher to Spitfire striper in one easy move.

How fast can you run Ashley?:D

Originally posted by dumaresqc
I dare them to go out, late on the afternoon of June 5th, with a paint brush and two cans of paint, and slap on some stripes. Far more realistic.

If someone provides me with some paint and a big brush I could be persuaded 😀

I understand it that gloss paint is often applied nowadays to warbirds because it lasts much longer, so is much more cost efficient for the owner. And it’s easier to maintain of course.

It also adds a bit of speed over matt paint, and especially over bare metal.

It was interesting to compare the paint schemes on the old RNZAF Andovers. Half the fleet were in matt camouflage schemes, and though well maintained they looked a little rugged. The other half of the fleet were in glossy white (UN) and blue and white (IP) schemes and always looked lovely and fresh. But they were all used the same amount.

One thing I’d really like to see replicated authentically, though it’s no doubt impossible, is the colour of the worn and weathered RNZAF Corsairs that operated in the islands. The NZ blue paint when roughed up by the coral dust apparently turned an odd pinkish shade, making them rather distinctive. It would be interesting to see one operating looking like that these days I reckon.

As for Norman Jackson VC, interesting story. I wonder if he had known prior about Sgt Pilot Jimmy Ward VC, who’d done a similar thing in a 75 Sqn Wellington. Jimmy didn’t use a parachute, and he kicked holes in the fabric for holding onto. He used a tarpaulin I think to smother an engine fire, and it took several trips back and forth to the engine before he succeeded. And he didn’t fall off. He was NZ’s first VC winner in WWII, and was killed a matter of months later on another raid.:(

Hi All,
Interesting thread, sometime back before David Tallichete had his B-17 repainted it look like a 100 mission combat Vet.

I remember going to some shows with the 17 and haveing vets come up and say thats what are planes used to look like not that shinny thing next to you and guess what was seem to be always next to us a P-51.

After the the movie was fineshed david use the plane as a mold for full scall Fiberglass replicas. Well who ever did the casting forgot to put on anothe selant so when it came to remove the resin mold it pulled chunks of paint off.

This was great for effect but it also present a problem that everytime we went somewere we would lose a chunk of paint.

I remember doing a photo shoot over the coast of Maine near a Light House and a section of paint came off the top of the wing it must have been 5 or 6 square feet of paint. I’m glad it was over water.

*smart alec moment*

A wartime aircraft was worn. A modern aircraft doesn’t get the use or abuse that the wartime one did. The operational useage is quite different – a few months of hard work, then clang. Now, a few moments of great entertainment seperated by hangerage and TLC.

If you fake the wear: ‘make up’ (and one can argue the depth detail, I agree Pearl Harbour was overdone, but it was a contrast) it’s faked. Not real. Hmmm.

OK, so far so obvious. The clever bit is this. Real wear now is completely different to then. I loved the look of AR501, the Shuttleworth machine but the engine cowlings had been of exponentially more times than they were in wartime, with the wear to match. The gun bay hatches, exactly the oposite.

And -um- you ain’t going to get real cordite smut markings without firing the guns… Apart from the fact that cordite is highly corrosive, which is why you keep your guns clean!

For one off shows, yes, great (washable paint can be great – as well as a bu@@er to get off after, but that’s another story) but for the majority? “Look dad, that plane needs a wash!”

Cheers

A modern day Norman Jackson VC. But instead of the fire extinguisher insert duster…

🙂

For those of you who don’t know the story…

The wing fire prompted Jackson’s course of action. He climbed onto the Navigation table and deliberately opened his parachute inside the aircraft, while Higgins and Toft sorted out the rigging lines and chute to prepare themselves as ‘anchor-men’. Releasing the upper escape hatch, Jackson squeezed himself out into the freezing 200mph slipstream. Firmly grasping the edge of the open hatch he edged his body out, laid flat along the top of the fuselage and lowered himself until his feet met the wing root below. He flung himself forward and managed to grasp the leading edge air intake and directed the contents of the extinguisher into an engine cowling opening. The flames died down momentarily. The Lancaster banked to port, taking evasive action against the returning German fighter which raked the aircraft with cannon fire again and wounded Jackson for the second time. After the impact of the shellfire, the extinguisher was blown away. The flames once again erupted, blowing over Jackson’s body. He lost his grip and was swept off the wing, to be held in the slipstream by the smouldering rigging lines and canopy furiously being played out by Toft and Higgins before they released the parachute. Breaking free from the stricken Lancaster he descended rapidly. Attempting to extinguish the smouldering cords, he became conscious of the pain of his back and leg wounds, but his hands, shrivelled and contracted by the flames, were mercifully numb. Jackson remembered later that the canopy of the parachute was not only slashed and torn, but, more ominously, had burning holes in it which were getting larger as he fell to earth. Miraculously his fall was cushioned by a mass of bushes. Barely conscious, Jackson lay where he landed until day-break. Then, with a broken ankle to add to his earlier injuries, he crawled to a cottage on the edge of the forest. Banging on the door with an elbow he was confronted by an irate middle-aged German who verbally abused him, before two young girls took Jackson into the cottage and nursed him. Alerted by the cottage owner, some local Police officials appeared and Jackson, supported by one of them, was made to walk to the nearest town where he was briefly treated at the local hospital. He was then paraded through the town where some people jeered and insulted him. Jackson said later that he understood their anger, “after all, how would we have felt after being bombed night after night?”

As they say – “They don’t make ’em like that anymore….”

Wouldn’t a soft, lint free duster be better? That parachute material can leave smears..

😉

That’s why I wear a parachute 😉

Some get cleaned very often 😉 I can think of a collection where the entire fleet of 5 have been cleaned over the last week.

How much of a warbird can you get in exchange for an old Renault and £150? At least I can apparently fly one now though 😀

Iv’e got a new slant on this thread why don’t you all by your own warbird and do what you want to it::D 😀 😀

😀

The only aircraft I can think of that looks like it came straight out of Hendon is the Breighton Hurri. It’s very dark…..