Ident for Lancaster lost at Le Harve Sept 44

Welcome

Welcome buddyk, as Moggy says, here we care. Don

Thank you Moggy C. for your kind words. Unfortunately my father passed away almost 22 years ago. It was actually while doing research for a memory book for my mother’s 90th birthday that I happened upon your thread. It is very good to know that all who served are remembered by at least some.
Afterall freedon is not free. I have passed on the information in this thread to other members of my family as I am sure that they will be interested as well.
I would like to correct one point, the tail gunner was P/O Bill Kubiak, not Roy although Roy was the only British member of the crew. Something else you may find interesting is that until the day my father died he considered the members of this crew among his closest friends. We as a family have often wondered what happened after the crew bailed out, as it is with many of the veteran, my father spoke very little about the war or his role in it. I will be happy to continue with this forum, many thanks for keeping these memories alive.

The thread gets even more amazing 🙂

Buddy K, thank you for that input. I hope you may find enough of interest here to stick around.

Can I suggest that if your father is (hopefully) still with us today you could pass on the thanks of all the contributors here for his wartime service.

On this forum at least, their work and their sacrifices are never forgotten.

Moggy

buddyk

I happened across your inquiry while doing some research on another subject. My father was Reginald Arthur Swartz. He was a member of the crew of the Lancaster bomber shot down on Sept 8 1944. It is true that all lthe crew survived, which is remarkable in itself, but even more remarkable was the fact that they all survived the war. All members were Canadian except for Roy Matcham who was British.
The article in the Mountview Viewpoint was in fact a interview with my father. As far as I know all of the crew were able to bail out at the same time except for my father, Howie Morrison (the pilot) and Roy Matcham (the rear gunner). Apparently the door to Roy’s area jamed and my father and Howie stayed behind to get him out. They bailed out over ememy territory.
They all were successful evading capture.
I would suspect that the crew members that Areonut’s father breakfasted with were the rest of my father’s crew. They were assigned to the 405th squadon, Pathfinder Lancaster, stationed at Gransden Lodge.

Thank you for all those additional ‘facts’.

Moggy

Well, I think you have all had your say, by now. Here are the facts, which are taken from an, as yet, unpublished volume of a book series.

PA970 Mk3 LQ-Y 405 Sqn Gransden Lodge. T/o base 0657 hrs on the 8th, for le Havre, as Master Bomber. Bomb load; 6 x 1,000, plus 6 Red TIs. Hit by flak, at 3,000′, over the target. All eight crew baled out. Seven landed behind allied lines and returned to the UK, some two days later. The R/G landed in enemy held territory. He was captured and held in Fort Tourneville, le Havre, until liberated by allied troops on 12th Sept.
Pilot; W/Cdr Howard Allan MORRISON, DFC, J/4898, RCAF. From Winnipeg, Manitoba. Enlisted there, 25/9/40. DFC as S/Ldr, 405 Sqn (LG; 15/9/44) DSO promulgated 27/10/44, with this incident being cited. Continued in the RCAF, post-war, and awarded the AFC, during the Korean War (LG; 5/6/52), plus the Queen’s Coronation Medal (LG; 23/10/53)
Nav; F/Lt Linton Wilson QUEALE, DFC, J/24216, RCAF. Born in Stranraer,
Saskatchewan. Resided in Victoria, possibly British Columbia. Enlisted there, 28/5/37. DFC as F/Lt, 405 Sqn. (LG; 15/9/44). Bar to DFC, as F/Lt, 405 Sqn (LG; 8/12/44).
Visual A/B; F/Lt Ross Bernard BARONI, J/19400, RCAF. From New Ross, Ontario. Enlisted RCAF, 24/10/41, Halifax, Nova Scotia, on transfer from the Royal Canadian Artillery. DFC as F/Lt, 405 Sqn (LG; 13/10/44). Bar to DFC, as F/Lt, 405 Sqn (LG; 16/1/45).
Specialist Operator; F/Lt Reginald Arthur SWARTZ, DFC, J/26343, RCAF. Born West Lorne, Ontario. DFC as F/Lt, 405 Sqn (LG; 15/9/44). Bar to DFC, as F/Lt, 405 Sqn (LG; 8/12/44).
F/E; F/Sgt, R. A. W. MATCHAM or MATSHAM, 1604454, RAFVR.
WOp; W/O, G. J. D’ARCY, R/154763, RCAF.
MU/G; F/Sgt, R. BOREBO, R/191174, RCAF.
R/G; W/O 2 Waclas KUBIAK, R/132761, RCAF. Born Montreal. Enlisted there, 15/10/41, on transfer from the Royal Canadian Artlllery. DFC as P/O, J/89016(LG; 12/12/44).

Far be it for me to mention the book series, but you could type my name into Amazon. It may come up with a title, which could possibly be listed on eBay.
Doug Cuthbertson.

Amazing stuff 🙂

Moggy

I should add aeronut, that what we have here is a VERY UNUSUAL circumstance, hence the volume of accessible information.
– the majority of Lancasters shot down took their crews with them, for all to survive was rare indeed
– le Havre was an atypical target
– we have the Canadian link
– etc.

BOMBER HIT 3 TIMES IN 10 SECONDS

Aeronut … Google is the most amazing thing. I put in “405 squadron rcaf evaded le havre” and found this …

http://www.airmuseum.ca/mag/0503.html

On this page is an excerpt from the “Mountain Viewpoint Newsletter of RCAF Station, Mountain View, Ont. Vol 2 – No. 25, August 1945”. That’s almost a year later.

It describes an “incident over Le Havre [that] was the only one out of the ordinary” for a 405 Squadron pathfinder crew, all but one Canadians. Sound familiar? Although there is no date given (for the incident) chances are it’s the same crew/incident (how many others would there be? A. none). There’s an interesting description of what happened and the names of all the crew.

You might strike it lucky and be able to get in touch with one of them or their descendants

Good luck, cheers Don

Many thanks for the information chaps. The following is what my Father wrote about the event on the 8th.

The rain for the past 3 days here has equalled any Manchester can produce and just being in a clay bound slit trench doesn’t make you exactly cheerful. Anyway It has just stopped now and the sun has peeped out for a moment so I’II take the opportunity to do a spot of sun bathing whilst I wring my shirt out. We have had the RAF heavies bombing the Boche defences just in front of us and from where I am I have a grandstand view of it all. The bombs must certainly have been effective and even we from 2000 yards back could feel the blast, and my goodness what a concentration. I am sure there must have been close on 400 Lancasters & Halifaxes all dropping the loads In such a short time that it sounded like a super-machine gun firing. One or two aircraft were hit by Flak and the crew of one (Canadians) baled out In our area.
Of course, we Invited them to breakfast and gave them a nip of whiskey and generally swapped yarns. They were genuinely surprised that we should live in such discomfort and not get more notice taken of us. They remarked that 12 hours previous they were living in a most luxurious mess, in England, and so suddenly undergo such a change of surroundings. I would have liked to have one of Jerries bombardments Iaid on for that moment, just to impress these fellows that it is a damn sight more unpleasant sitting tight in one place and being shelled than it is to dodge flak in an aircraft moving at 300 miles per hour. After all they go home and get a spot of leave while the PBI still has to stick it out.

As a Chadderton built aircraft parts of her would certainly have been made at Newton Heath where my Grandfather (William wilkinson) was the Works Superintendant.

The attack on Le Harve wasn’t the only large raid father watched from close in his letters show respect for the RAF even when they accidentally attacked the Black Watch front lines “our fault for getting too far ahead” . There was contempt for the Luftwaffe and absolute distrust of the Americans after he was caught up in the accidental bombing of Canadian and British troops near Caen.

Chaps,

Taken on a project I’m working on detailing the role & operations of No.3 (Bomber) Group, RAF Bomber Command. Taken via numerous file at the NA, happy to supply refs this evening.

Friday 8th September 1944. Le Havre

Daylight

118 Avro Lancaster’s detailed.

115 Sqdn (21) 514 Sqdn (14) 75(NZ) Sqdn (23) 622 Sqdn (14) 15 Sqdn (14) 90 Sqdn (20) 218 Sqdn (10)

4 Short Stirling’s detailed.

149 Sqdn (4)

Cancelled : 0
Abortive : 2
Missing : 1

This time the target was attacked in two waves each with a different aiming point. Crews attacking the first aiming point found cloud down to 3,000ft and had considerable difficulty identifying the aiming point or hearing the Master Bomber.

In view of the nearness of our troops and the general uncertainty of the situation most crews brought their bombs back. The attack cannot be considered successful.

The second aiming point was attack under rather better conditions from 4,000ft and crews had no difficulty in seeing the T.I’s or identifying the target, bombing was good and concentrated. Towards the end of the attack bombs were starting to overshoot, rather than risking our own troops the Master Bomber called “Abandon Mission.”

The attack on this aiming point while better than the first Aiming point cannot be considered entirely successful. Light flak was considerable on both attacks, several aircraft were damaged, one being seen shot down.

PA970 was in a batch of serials allocated to Lancasters ordered from A V Roe (Chadderton) in April 1943 and delivered between May 1944 and March 1945.

It would have been a MkIII, almost certainly fitted with Merlin 38s.

On its last mission it was wearing Squadron codes LQ-Y. It is presumed to have crashed just inside enemy perimeter, all crew evaded

8 September 1944
333 aircraft – 304 Lancasters, 25 Mosquitos, 4 Stirlings – of Nos 1, 3 and 8 Groups attempted to bomb German positions at Le Havre but the weather was bad, with a low cloud base, and only 109 aircraft bombed, with indifferent results. 2 Lancasters lost. The 4 Stirlings on this raid, all from No 149 Squadron based at Methwold, were the last Bomber Command Stirlings to carry out a bombing operation. It is believed that Stirling LK396, piloted by Flying Officer JJ McKee, an Australian, was the last Stirling to bomb the target.

Moggy

In these sorts of investigations, a good starting point is
http://www.lostbombers.co.uk/
There you enter the bomber type (“Lancaster”) and the date/s and and you’ll get the answers Andy gave you (is this what you did Andy?). Then click through on each aircraft (thumbnail pic) and you’ll get details. One of the four returned to the UK and crash landed, two of the four crashed over Europe killing their crews, one of the four – PA970 of 405 squadron RCAF – crashed and the crew evaded. As Andy says, this is almost certainly the crew you’re interested in. Don

I’m trying to flesh out the letters and papers of my late father into some sort of a book. He was with the 1st Battalion the Black Watch part of the 51st Highland Division and he had breakfast with the crew of a Lancaster that was shot down whilst bombing Le Harve of the 8th September 44. According to his letters (and an unpublished regimental history I have) they bailed out and landed in the Regiment’s area.
I’d be interested to identfy the aircraft, Sqn and crew if only to find out that my Mother and Grandfather who both worked for AVRO at Newton Heath had a hand in building the aircraft. It can be a small world even in war!

Either: HK579, LL677, PA970 or PB123. The entire crew of PA970 survived, all bar one of them were RCAF. Some crew members on the other a/c did not survive. Andy Saunders