Airline: If you don’t fit the seat, pay for two
SOUTHWEST WILL GET TOUGH WITH LARGE PASSENGERS
By Deborah Lohse
Mercury News
Southwest Airlines fliers deemed too big for a single seat will soon be asked to buy another ticket, outraging many who say large should not mean overcharged.
Southwest is getting more rigid in applying a longstanding policy so that all “customers of size will know what to expect when they arrive at the airport,” said Whitney Eichinger, a Southwest spokeswoman. Passengers can buy the extra ticket at a discount and can ask for a refund later if the flight isn’t full.
The airline doesn’t plan to use weigh stations or metal racks for sizing derrieres, as it does for carry-on luggage. Instead, it will be up to the agent to eyeball passengers.
“The agents are invited to take the customer aside and suggest they may not be comfortable in a single seat,” Eichinger said. Southwest has gotten complaints from customers who felt encroached upon, she said.
Advocates for overweight people say the airline should be more flexible, especially if the person is flying with a small companion or if the flight isn’t full.
“They are getting more power and we are totally at their mercy,” said Maryanne Bodolay, an executive with the Sacramento-based National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance.
Other airlines have similar policies, including Continental and Northwest. United Airlines says it has no two-ticket policy.
Steve McAllister, a Fremont software executive, accused the airline of squeezing large people like him out with smaller seats. He said he was recently asked to buy two tickets by a Southwest agent in Sacramento.
“This is all about them trying to get more revenue so they can reduce the size of seats,” McAllister said. “I’m really paying to get from point A to point B; they choose to make the seats that size.”
He was able to fly without the extra ticket in the end, since the expanded policy isn’t slated to take effect until June 26.
McAllister said he has never been ordered to buy two tickets on other airlines. But he said an agent at another airline once seated him and two other over-300-pound men in the same row as a joke.
Southwest has been sued over its policy three times, always ending in dismissal. The airline recently reminded all its airport stations of the policy as it overhauls boarding procedures, including replacing its plastic boarding passes with paper ones.
Eichinger said there were no plans to charge extra for other bodily intrusions, such as arm rest hogs, leggy knee bumpers or lean-over droolers. She said, “That’s part of flying.”
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funny :9
By: greekdude1 - 24th June 2002 at 08:40
RE: If you don’t fit the seat, pay for two
Sometimes I seriously wonder how many of the people sitting in business class, actually paid for it. I would think that a good number of them either upgraded, or used their mileage. That’s the only way I could ‘afford’ to fly business. A business class seat between LAX and SYD costs almost $8000 U.S. That is unbelievable! I won’t even address the first class cabin!
GD1
By: KabirT - 24th June 2002 at 07:41
RE: If you don’t fit the seat, pay for two
Mongu…just on the last point…. airlines are most profitable with business class seats only. They dont earn much from economy class, business class is there trump card on all flights be it short haul or long haul. In business class most airlines charge almost triple the amount that of economy, and in no business class they give that sort of treatment for the amount you pay. People get very happy with full recline seats, entertainment, but they are highly overcharged for that…and thats where the airlines makes big bucks!
By: greekdude1 - 24th June 2002 at 06:48
RE: If you don’t fit the seat, pay for two
I wouldn’t argue with Mongu when it comes to economics!
GD1
By: mongu - 22nd June 2002 at 21:21
RE: If you don’t fit the seat, pay for two
I don’t agree Bhoy.
1. If the arcraft was downsized, what would be the point of giving the extra legroom/elbow room anyway?
2. Okay, your point about less fuel burn is valid. Maybe they’d carry more belly cargo instead.
3. If demand is constant (ie. the improved seats are not a reaction to falling loads, but a way to attract passengers from other airlines) then you’d need more aircraft. The cost of these would more than offset fuel savings.
4. As I said before, if you improve economy by reducing seat count, then biz class is not such the jump up it once was. Companies will start to look at sending staff in these “new” economy classes.
5. I don’t think airlines see biz class as “pure” profit. They just have higher margins, thats all.
By: Bhoy - 22nd June 2002 at 18:04
RE: If you don’t fit the seat, pay for two
I think that’s not quite right…
Consider also that if there is a reduction in seats, there’s a reduction in weight of the a/c (not only (20% less pax weight, but 20% less luggage), which means less fuel to carry (which in turn means less fuel) (with 20% pax, there’d also be 1-2 less crew on a typical flight, -> less wages).
This could, for example, mean that an a/c is downsized in weight category for landing charges.
Consider also, as noted in this month’s AW, the new LH flight from DUS to EWR operated by BBJ, with obviously a lot less seats than any wide body. Ticket prices wouldn’t necessarily have to rocket.
Apart from which, if half the business class seats were full on a typical BA transatlantic flight… every single additional pax on the plane is pure profit for BA. so they could easily afford to lose a couple of Economy seats…
By: mongu - 21st June 2002 at 22:17
RE: If you don’t fit the seat, pay for two
I’ve got a similar anecdote.
I was travelling from Lusaka to Livingstone (to see the Victoria Falls), which is normally about an 80 minute flight by ATR-42.
Well, we decided to “slum” it and take the coach.
Ignoring the other elements of a horrible journey, the seating was poor. Most coaches use a 2-2 abreast configuration. However, this coach was a Chinese commie special. Side seats folded down to make it 2-1-2, with 1 seat every row in the aisle!
You simply could not move.
In such countries, deoderant doesn’t tend to be used a great deal. And here was me, surrounded by perhaps 80 such people on a very, very hot day.
It should come as no surprise that on the return leg I allowed the local airline to hold my credit card hostage and flew back in the delights of “economy” class!
By: greekdude1 - 21st June 2002 at 20:55
RE: If you don’t fit the seat, pay for two
I’ve never sat next to an incredibly ‘large’ person on a flight before. The biggest was probably my buddy “Large”(appropriately nicknamed) when we flew to Hawaii. He probably weighs about 260 lbs., and there was no problem there. However, if I was sitting next to an incredibly obese person to where his/her body was invading my personal space, that would really suck during the course of a flight. Economy class is cramped as it is. That would take the word ‘discomfort’ to the next level. Especially if it was in one of the countries where people absolutely refuse to wear deodorant.
GD1
By: dan330 - 21st June 2002 at 20:46
RE: If you don’t fit the seat, pay for two
This is absolutely right!
Basically when you buy your ticket you buy a seat for the duration of the flight and thats it, if you need two you pay for two, its as simple as that!
Its NOT discrimination at all. Imagine if the plane was full of fat people who needed two seats each, the airline would only get half the money than they would if it was full of normal sized people.
I totally agree with this and hope other airlines follow suit.
By: mongu - 21st June 2002 at 18:58
RE: If you don’t fit the seat, pay for two
Whether or not someone is fat is no one’s concern, except their own and perhaps their family’s.
I thought that was what bulkhead seats were used for – passengers who needed more room?
Besides, I would refer you to my earlier post about seating revenue. Reducing a narrow body aircraft from 6-abreast to 5-abreast has a more than just a “small” effect on prices.
As an example: 17 rows x 6 abreast = 102 seats. At a notional price of £100 per seat, average revenue is £100 x 102 = £10,200.
If this is now changed…
17 rows x 5 abreast = 85 seats. To achieve the same revenue, price would need to be changed to (10,200 / 85) = £120.
That is an average rise of 20%. If you even think about increasing average legroom, the rise is nearer to 50%. Do you think Joe Public will, ever, pay that?
I would, and maybe you too. But the fact that virtually no airline in the world does this, must say something to you. For full service airlines, this would also diminish demand for biz class seats which are significantly more profitable anyway.
Of course, the reduction from 102 to 85 seats now means that each seat generates more revenue than before. Therefore, revenue is more sensitive to load factors. Marginal routes may become unprofitable, and certainly a “sensitivity margin” would be added to the already 20% higher prices!
Okay T5, in an ideal world, maybe!
By: T5 - 21st June 2002 at 17:10
RE: If you don’t fit the seat, pay for two
I think it is only fair that economy seats get just a tiny bit bigger. Even the average sized person finds moving about difficult due to the limited space to the sides, in front and behind.
However, an airline does have to make money and if a rather large passenger cannot fit into one seat, they’re going to need another. The price you pay for an airline ticket is for one seat for the duration of the flight and if it’s going to be a full flight, tubby people should be made to pay twice the fare or a supplement (excess charge but not quite the price of a complete ticket). If it’s a relatively empty flight, allow these people to fly for the price of one seat.
Most people can do something about their weight and it may be them and their diets that have given them weights which are well and truly out of proportion to height – it’s not like tall people, they cannot control they way they grow, but fat people can do something about it and so should pay the price the airline requests.
This sounds incredibly negative, but it’s merely the way I feel.
By: Selsport69 - 21st June 2002 at 16:31
RE: If you don’t fit the seat, pay for two
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 21-06-02 AT 04:32 PM (GMT)]I wonder which will be the first airline to be sued for disgrimination. At the end of the day if certain airlines carry out this rule then the paying passenger will have other airlines to fly with. I mean at a time when the airline industry is in disaray I would have thought they should be trying to encourage passengers aboard and not try and rip them of.
By: Rabie - 21st June 2002 at 15:07
RE: If you don’t fit the seat, pay for two
they ahd rik waller o channel 5 news yesterday to coment about this (he is the really fat guy off pop idol – he is huge).
rabie :9
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June 21, 2002 at 2:04 pm