If you thought the Whirlwind project was mad..

I know, the Sea Hornet and Halifax cockpit projects reported on in this forum are brilliant examples of that. A four-engine flying boat or a twin-engine WWII fighter do not fall into this category though.

Four engined flying boat maybe – it was always meant as a ‘thought experiment’, I wasn’t proposing it just yet.

However, if by ‘twin engined fighter’ you mean the Whirlwind project, you might be surprised. After all, you should take a look at the other project I have a hand in – http://www.flickr.com/photos/aeroreg/4950440713/ – very much a ‘flyers and badges’ operation, and absolutely no ‘backer’ money at all. Very little money generally. And, thanks to the project boss’ insistance on an authentic reverse-engineered Hawker tube-and-plate early wing, more complex than a Whirlwind to reproduce accurately – number of engines largely irrelevant.

And if size is your issue, I could point to a certain Halifax repro. Agreed, money is lovely to have if one is ambitious – but enthusiasm and patience count for as much.

I know, the Sea Hornet and Halifax cockpit projects reported on in this forum are brilliant examples of that. A four-engine flying boat or a twin-engine WWII fighter do not fall into this category though.

Too true.
However, you’d be supprised at how much can be done with a little money & lots of enthusiasm & abillity.

Bob T.

Everything is possible – with enough money.

Enthusiasm, CAD, club badges, paper flyers etc. alone will not make anything substantial materialize.

Money, money and more money is all that matters – and is the reason why this and most other dream projects conjured in this forum will remain dreams only.

Sorry for being a spoilsport but that’s reality.

PS! There were similar plans for a Dornier Do X replica to float around Lake Constance some years ago and nothing ever came of it. It didn’t even seem to manage to attract the financial attention of the wealthy Dornier family who is quite enthusiastic about their heritage (they’ve had a static Dornier Wal replica built for their museum).

Well it looks like you could recover enough parts to make an accurate repro, all you need now is to win the lottery “anyone know what the numbers will be for tonights ? ;)”.

Bob T.

Thanks!

That is a Solent, though – not the C-class.

MOTAT

There’s one here

Have dug..

Brian Cassidy’s excellent ‘Flying Empires’ – available as a free download from the URL I gave earlier, states the following (The rest of this post is a quote with full acknowledgement of Brian cassidy as the Author):

“UU CAVALIER lies in deep water in the Atlantic at N 37 17 W 069 45.

Divers report that parts of V 3137 CABOT are still on the seabed in fairly shallow water off the Island of Mauren to the north of Bodø, inside the Arctic Circle.

‘UX CASSIOPEIA, its hull broken in two pieces, is just outside the entrance to Sabang Harbour. The bodies of one of the passengers and the baby were never found.

‘BD CORIO, on a flight from Darwin to Sourabaya to evacuate women and children, was shot down on fire into the water off the mouth of the Noelmini river, near Koepang. Three crew and fifteen passengers did not survive.

‘TZ CIRCE, complete with its crew of four and thirty passengers, is somewhere in the deep water between Tijlatjap and Broome, believed to have been shot down by Japanese fighters while on the last of the shuttle flights on 28 February 1942. ‘TZ gave a position report at 10.25, about 130 n.m. (240 km.) out from Tijlatjap, the last message ever received.

‘UF CORINTHIAN is believed to be still in Darwin harbour although its whereabouts are not known. ’UF broke up and sank after a normal night alighting on Darwin harbour during the night of 21/22 March 1942, in good weather. Captain Ambrose was seriously injured, two passengers were killed and two seriously injured. It is thought that ‘UF struck floating wreckage, as the accident occurred just a month after the bombing attack by Japanese aircraft on the harbour.

The shattered remains of A18-10 CENTAURUS and ‘UC CORINNA lie under the water off Broome, West Australia. An underwater side scan sonar survey of the harbour by archaeologists from the Western Australian Maritime Museum in 2001 revealed evidence of many of the wrecks. One of these is one of the two Empire ‘boats is at E 122deg. 15min. 12sec. S 18deg 00min. 48 sec. Anecdotal evidence indicates that it is probably A18-10. The Empire ‘boats were moored close together and with luck, they will be both identified in 2003. Underwater photographs show what seems to be an engine – the cooling gills are evident – and the blade of an airscrew.

There is a remote possibility that A18-11 CALYPSO was salvaged as it does not appear on the list of crashed aircraft. If it was not salvaged, it lies with its nose stove in and the planing bottom ripped out in the shallow water to the north of Australia, with a member of its crew.

The wreckage of ‘CZ CLARE is in the Atlantic, brought down by fire at night, somewhere off Bathurst. The bodies of one of the crew and five of the passengers are buried at Bathurst but the other four crew members and eight passengers were never recovered.

‘DU CAMILLA is listed as crash No. 366, located 5 miles west of Port Moresby. The water in this area is shallow and a search of the area revealed nothing. It more probable that the remains of ‘DU are on the ocean side of Nateara Reef, to the south of the Basilisk Light with two of the crew and eleven passengers. The bottom in the area is some 100 fathoms (180 m.), shelving down to 400 fathoms (730 m.). The positions of many of the hundreds of other aircraft wrecks in the waters around the coasts of Papua New Guinea are known and have been visited by divers but so far ‘DU has eluded all efforts at discovery”.

Thanks Bob. I’ll do some (metaphorical) digging.:)

I came across the info some time ago, it was on one of the scuba diving websites. If I remember correctly one of them was in a river estuary somewhere in the far east. Perhaps they will still be where they are, after you have bought your spitfires :diablo:.

Bob T.

Thanks folks – so yes, looks like the Australian ones are out. Sopwith, you mentioned a couple of others, one diveable?

I’ll not be doing it in the near future – I can barely afford a paddle in Hunstanton right now – but out of interest, where and which aircraft is that? Maybe I’ll go investigate after I have won the lottery and if there’s money left after I have bought a couple of Burmese Spitfires..

Steel frame and fibreglass is all a bit too James May for me. I might just get in touch with Qantas though – happy to help!

I dont think theres anything substantial of an Empire Flying boat left at Broome and I dont think the WA government will permit any recovery or disturbance of those wrecks in anycase, the tide would be the least of your troubles.

I understand Qantas Founders have a full scale Empire Flying Boat on their to do list.

Regards

Mark Pilkington

Broome would be a non starter,the larger items left are believed to be
Catalina or Dornier,and they can only be accessed during King Tides,
even then you will need a rapid form of transport,as the tide is
faster than most people can run.
Even then, these items are in worse than relic condition.
Attached is at Broome airport.

Seem to remember fibreglass and steel frame and runnable?

Thanks. What is it made of?

Tupperware lanc

Not sure – was anyone on board the Empires?

One man’s scrap is another’s vital engineering information.. so it would be worth looking into, at least – in the absence of anything else.

By the way, I found this: http://www.users.waitrose.com/~mbcass/

with the download at http://www.users.waitrose.com/~mbcass/Flying%20Empires.pdf

Cheers,

M

Hmm – don’t fancy ‘guessing’. For me it would either be pull one up from just off Broome, or hope the plans are in fact down the back of someone’s sofa.

But these Chinese Lanc repros – tell me more!

I don’t think that any remains off Broome are suitable for ‘pulling up’, apart from the fact that they were blasted into scrap before the weather did its bit for 70 years, are they not a war grave?

As I remember, the Tupperware Lancs were made for Peter Jackson’s Dambusters remake, and there are photos of them floating around. Seen them on this forum, I believe.

Hmm – don’t fancy ‘guessing’. For me it would either be pull one up from just off Broome, or hope the plans are in fact down the back of someone’s sofa.

But these Chinese Lanc repros – tell me more!