I'm gutted ….

Moderator Message

I think it’s time to put this thread out of our misery now.

Not this forum’s finest hour, by any means.

GA

so never judge a book and all that !!

The irony is that it is you who is so swift to rush to judgment.

As for my previous experience, it could be said that I spent quite a lot of my time clearing up the mess left by hobby Bobbies, but I wouldn’t be so dismissive. I achieved 100% in First Aid, also hold a City & Guilds, a further professional qualification perhaps more suited to the care and rehabilitation of those with addictive tendencies, was runner up in a National health & safety competition and attended numerous courses regarding more or less everything you mentioned (except for switching on and turning off engineering machinery.)

My previous, apparently irrelevant experience, ranges from resuscitating an OD to performing last offices on a failed resuscitation, from the rehabilitation of an addict whose addiction had led to them losing a foot to helping an addict through withdrawal. I have worked with prostitutes and pimps, treated assaults and been assaulted in the course of those duties, I still have the scar from when I was stabbed during one of these assaults.

But none of this addresses either of the issues raised. The first being your total intolerance of anyone holding an opinion which is contrary to your own. The second, more important issue, being society’s response, or lack thereof, to the problems of drug addiction and homelessness. I don’t know the answer to either of these problems. I know enough to know that I couldn’t begin to find a solution to these problems. I know enough NOT to condemn a profession, that despite it’s recent public failings, is understaffed, under resourced and under a burden of pressure that is so great it is bound, on occasion, to fail.

Regards,

kev35

By day he’s a mild mannered aerospace engineer. By night he’s..

..nobody knows; as he seems to have done everything. :rolleyes:

Tornado64, what are you qualifications in this field. Share your experience please as you’re getting too carried away with this for it to be just a passing interest?

I’d like to know how you can just dismiss Kev’s experiences, while we have to try and accept yours at face value as being far and away more extreme.

You can talk about drug culture all you want, but being a junkie doesn’t automatically mean you’re looking at a homeless person or vice versa. If I want to see a junkie or needles, I know where I can find them within rock throwing (occasionally shooting) distance.

As for you working on engines… big deal. Wow. It has no bearing on homeless people and any number of people around Derby still build gas turbines. From your own descriptions you were at best, a machinist.

“i could scan and display my numourous certificates obtained for working in the field , including first aid ( passed 98% ) customer care city and guilds , health and safety , drugs awareness , handling agression , racial awareness , disability awareness , and a whole host of other team building exercises”

But for all of that you are still intolerant of the opinions of others aren’t you?

as said before only to those who seem to enjoy constant niggling and the last word !!

“we were on the streets , breaking up fights , attending to o.d’s , giving first aid , chatting , writing reports , girls that are abused who wont go home or talk to social workers , people who have lost fammilys ‘ drunks , mentaly ill”

Might one ask just who ‘we’ are? Because from reading the above you appear to have been International Rescue. Social working Paramedic Police Officers who offer a little psychiatric nursing on the side?

[COLOR=”red]we patroled in pairs , predecessors to todays pcso’s some law training was actualy done through the police at the local police station such as theft laws [/colour]

“a lot of comments on here show how little folks do actualy realise what goes on on the streets around them”

In a previous life I saw my share of what happened to young people in the situations you describe.

sorry but previous is a far removed problem from todays drug culture dealing with hepatitis risks for one and pulling drug users who may well have sharps concealed it was far from unusual to discover drugs users shooting up in public places often not 1 munuite away from shopping crowds
]”i live in a reasonably well off area it opened my eyes wide to the reality of street life when taken into an area they lived in an old disused asbestos factory ( they weren’t worried about the asbestos , they didn’t foresee living that long ) and these are people in thier 20’s” [/B]

Didn’t open your front door to them though.

don’t for one second deny it , if something is lying round and has a saleable value ten minuites later it is in cash generator and the proceedes in a vien

“as i said you won’t like it when told but middle class hippy social workers who’s only wory in life was where to spend thier gap year from uni

are the last people they want to see ( or indeed get help from )

mostly because thier clueless interferance has usualy led to them being there in the first place !!”

Which clearly points out that you have no idea of social work or indeed social workers.beg to differ one of my best friends is one going that way from occupational therapy !! and i constantly have the argument and when it comes deep down there is some agreement !!

“you can take as many cosy uni exams as you want when they turn round and refuse help as they say ” because you don’t understand ” they have hit it bang on the head !!”

None of this is as simple as you would have us believe Sometimes, “because you don’t understand” really means because you don’t understand in the way I would like you to.

“would you trust a spinster or bachelor for giving marriage guidance”

You told us before that you were an aircraft engineer. Would YOU trust an aircraft engineer to be carrying out social work?

Regards,again there are many forms my engineering background came from keen eyes and a knowledge gleened from being braught up in an engineering family whilst not passing exams i could cheerfully fail supposedly educated guys work because none had the I.Q. to ask why is this casting porus and do a simple indicator test on it bfore machining it !!

parts worked on include turbine blade tooling for rr trent engine hardening process after spark erosion machining
tornado engine bearings and a whole host of other parts from aerospace sub con factorys also worked on air compressors for the m.o.d. sub programmes

this is what can realy annoy some i don’t considder myself the best educated ( i made the best out of a ****ty hand in life

ironicaly one of my friends spells worse than me yet he has been in charge of fifty suposedly educated blokes because even with bad spelling and grammar he could run rings round them engineering

a reason he now has his own ( expanding in recession ) international company , i had a hand in it so i now rareley pay for a meal out or good wine it was an idea that was only going to improve in recession !!

kev35

so never judge a book and all that !!

sorry to disagree but i have worked with them on the streets
>>>> well thanks.

i could scan and display my numourous certificates obtained for working in the field , including first aid ( passed 98% ) customer care city and guilds , health and safety , drugs awareness , handling agression , racial awareness , disability awareness , and a whole host of other team building exercises
>>>>and?

we were not sat in a nice cosy office or a nice cosy house or hostel
>>>>so?

we were on the streets , breaking up fights , attending to o.d’s , giving first aid , chatting , writing reports , girls that are abused who wont go home or talk to social workers , people who have lost fammilys ‘ drunks , mentaly ill ,
>>>> so it still isn’t your problem.

a lot of comments on here show how little folks do actualy realise what goes on on the streets around them.
>>>> oh, more than you know.

i live in a reasonably well off area it opened my eyes wide to the reality of street life when taken into an area they lived in an old disused asbestos factory ( they weren’t worried about the asbestos , they didn’t foresee living that long ) and these are people in thier 20’s
>>>> it still isn’t your responsibility, to feel guilt or to sort out.

they slept in a sea of hyperdermics one must have struggled for a human one and robbed the vets as there was a horse hyperdermic ( god knows how they managed , but needs must )
>>>> again, me hearts bleedin.

as i said you won’t like it when told but middle class hippy social workers who’s only wory in life was where to spend thier gap year from uni
>>>>if that’s aimed at my missus then you are 100% from the truth. She is the total opposite, and has 25 years or more in the job.

are the last people they want to see ( or indeed get help from )
>>>>tar one brush etc.

mostly because thier clueless interferance has usualy led to them being there in the first place !!
>>>>this could be true, but giving up is the main cause.

you can take as many cosy uni exams as you want when they turn round and refuse help as they say ” because you don’t understand ” they have hit it bang on the head !!
>>>> we went to uni when they were uni’s. A gap year wasn’t even heard of.

would you trust a spinster or bachelor for giving marriage guidance !!
>>>> No, nor would I trust a childless midwife, nor a airline pilot that hasn’t done 10,000 hours, nor a vicar or preacher of any determination to tell me about faith. But that is the way it is.

I’m not a total heartless git, I buy big issue when I need something to read on the train, it’s better than a newspaper, and it assists a tramp that is at least trying to get out of it.
And I give to a charity for peoples that do not even have clean water.

In the text.

Apologies tornado, I forgot to add marriage guidance counsellor to your extensive list of qualifications.

Regards,

kev35

You are taking all of this far too personally, tornado64.

Chill out a wee bit, and stop lecturing people about whose lives and experiences you know next to nothing.

Cheers

GA

accepted but others who shall remain nameless should also accept that others , strange as it may seem to them ,, may have a little more knoledge than giving the odd little thing or speaking for ten minuites

there’s one lad i have talked to regularly for years

the only thing that will get him off the streets is his wife and kids back

it is 99 % positive it aint gonna happen

catch 22 , your move !!

“i could scan and display my numourous certificates obtained for working in the field , including first aid ( passed 98% ) customer care city and guilds , health and safety , drugs awareness , handling agression , racial awareness , disability awareness , and a whole host of other team building exercises”

But for all of that you are still intolerant of the opinions of others aren’t you?

“we were on the streets , breaking up fights , attending to o.d’s , giving first aid , chatting , writing reports , girls that are abused who wont go home or talk to social workers , people who have lost fammilys ‘ drunks , mentaly ill”

Might one ask just who ‘we’ are? Because from reading the above you appear to have been International Rescue. Social working Paramedic Police Officers who offer a little psychiatric nursing on the side?

“a lot of comments on here show how little folks do actualy realise what goes on on the streets around them”

In a previous life I saw my share of what happened to young people in the situations you describe.

“i live in a reasonably well off area it opened my eyes wide to the reality of street life when taken into an area they lived in an old disused asbestos factory ( they weren’t worried about the asbestos , they didn’t foresee living that long ) and these are people in thier 20’s”

Didn’t open your front door to them though.

“as i said you won’t like it when told but middle class hippy social workers who’s only wory in life was where to spend thier gap year from uni

are the last people they want to see ( or indeed get help from )

mostly because thier clueless interferance has usualy led to them being there in the first place !!”

Which clearly points out that you have no idea of social work or indeed social workers.

“you can take as many cosy uni exams as you want when they turn round and refuse help as they say ” because you don’t understand ” they have hit it bang on the head !!”

None of this is as simple as you would have us believe Sometimes, “because you don’t understand” really means because you don’t understand in the way I would like you to.

“would you trust a spinster or bachelor for giving marriage guidance”

You told us before that you were an aircraft engineer. Would YOU trust an aircraft engineer to be carrying out social work?

Regards,

kev35

Yet Another Moderator Message

You are taking all of this far too personally, tornado64.

Chill out a wee bit, and stop lecturing people about whose lives and experiences you know next to nothing.

Cheers

GA

In the text.

sorry to disagree but i have worked with them on the streets

i could scan and display my numourous certificates obtained for working in the field , including first aid ( passed 98% ) customer care city and guilds , health and safety , drugs awareness , handling agression , racial awareness , disability awareness , and a whole host of other team building exercises

we were not sat in a nice cosy office or a nice cosy house or hostel

we were on the streets , breaking up fights , attending to o.d’s , giving first aid , chatting , writing reports , girls that are abused who wont go home or talk to social workers , people who have lost fammilys ‘ drunks , mentaly ill ,

a lot of comments on here show how little folks do actualy realise what goes on on the streets around them

i live in a reasonably well off area it opened my eyes wide to the reality of street life when taken into an area they lived in an old disused asbestos factory ( they weren’t worried about the asbestos , they didn’t foresee living that long ) and these are people in thier 20’s

they slept in a sea of hyperdermics one must have struggled for a human one and robbed the vets as there was a horse hyperdermic ( god knows how they managed , but needs must )

as i said you won’t like it when told but middle class hippy social workers who’s only wory in life was where to spend thier gap year from uni

are the last people they want to see ( or indeed get help from )

mostly because thier clueless interferance has usualy led to them being there in the first place !!

you can take as many cosy uni exams as you want when they turn round and refuse help as they say ” because you don’t understand ” they have hit it bang on the head !!

would you trust a spinster or bachelor for giving marriage guidance !!

Moderator Message

Posting personal attacks on other members has never been tolerated on here, and never will be.

So don’t do it again!

GA

I see the phantom moderator has been at work again 😎

a total load of tosh !!

i actualy worked on the street with the real problem !!

a big percentage have mental problems /addictions
>>>> Hospital / yawn, my heart bleeds.

a loveley outcome from beurocrats thinking ” care in the community ” actualy works if you have no family support in todays britain.
>>>> Plenty of support available, start with hostels, get back into the habit of being responsible.

you have but two endings on the street or in prison !! a lot don’t fancy prison and try to keep out hence they are on the street !!

>>>>No, that’s the tosh.

mental conditions include P.T.S.D. (again incidentaly mostly ex services ) for one and a whole list of others the absolute last people they want to see is some middle class pratt from an office that has absolutely no idea of why they are there and that think one size fits all cures exist
>>>> there is a zillion charities for PTSD.

sorry it far from works out that way

there is one guy on the streets i stop and talk to regular you can give him a house , a regular income , and yadda , yadda

but you will never solve the problem unless you could magicly give him his wife and kids back !!
>>>> Person I know has lost house / wife / kids and job in a spell of two months.
He rented a poohole of a flat in a ghetto for £20 a week (This was 2008!), damper than you can imagine. It took him a year of dole but he pulled out of it.

In the text.

it proves to me by the comments in this thread that few actualy have any knowledge on the homeless or even actualy speak to them correctly and on the level

so i’ll start with a few truths a lot of the addicts on the street would be very well off if not addicts we had a long chat to some one night whilst patroling

and amongst other things were told they had a £700.00 per week drug habit to suport ( you would be intrigued at thier inginuity how to get it too )

one of thier favourite scams was public phoneboxes ( ever made a call and not received your change ??? ) you were scammed !!

they used to get a small pen from the bookies block the change chute from giving change return later remove the pen and money

in one day we unblocked many and several times our days takings were £100.00 not including what they beat us to !!

you mention those wearing posh clothes ( don’t let that fool you !! ) charity shops receive some exceptionaly good clothes ( a lot of people just leave them on doorsteps when the shop is closed ) so the homeless on the street get first pick !!(irrelavent of brand !! )

also did it ever cross the mind what happens to trading standards confiscated counterfeit goods ( a lot end up with homeless charritys ) and some are better quality than the original items !!

i used to deal with addicts on the street regular a lot go on many failed rehab courses and when released are usualy given a set figure of money and a nice new set of clothes

one lad was very smart when he was being removed by fire and ambulance from an abbandoned factory with an hyperdermic stuck in his leg

the trouble with rehab is , if they go back to it afterwards 9 out of ten get the doseage too powerful ( some are lucky ) some i knew were not !!

the bare truth is you simply cannot let first appearances fool you with the homeless

course there may well be the odd one that stories tell you owns a nice car and lives in a nice house

but i certainly never met one and if one tried it on the genuine ones would see them off rapidly as it is effecting thier business !!

Thes second category has to do with preservation of the religion (you mustn’t question anything you are told). This is the area I have problems with.

But wouldn’t that be “blind” faith? Are all religions/doctrines/faiths as rigid as you suggest? At the end of the day, whether you are of a particular faith or not, your conscience must be the final arbiter.

Regards,

kev35

Well said David George.

Merlin said “I do however believe I have christian values as well as my own set of beliefs on how I like to treat others and be treated.”

I think Christian values are divided into two categories. The first has to do with rules for the conduct of life and I wholeheartedly agree with these (although I sometimes find myself wanting in regard to coveting oxes).

Thes second category has to do with preservation of the religion (you mustn’t question anything you are told). This is the area I have problems with.

Correct me if I am wrong but that was the whole thing about the big issue wasnt it. It was meant to be sold by the homless etc?

But in the end it turns out that most of the people selling it actually were in accomodation. This is certainly true of one guy I know locally and of a number of big issue people I have spoken to over the years.

I often wonder how Kev from Edinburgh is doing. He was a champion kickboxer until drugs got the better of him. He ended up on the street and ended up getting clean and selling the big issue. Last I heard of him he had a house and was working on getting a job. Last thing I heard about him. One of the sucess stories of a sort. The guy really wanted to turn his life around.

I remember once a ‘homeless’ couple (plus dog) selling the Big Issue outside a town-centre supermarket. As I passed by I overheard one of them say “right I’ll see you later at home”!

No great social comment…..it just make me chuckle to myself. 😀