I’m out of here

And good it is to see you still perusing here  and even better that You’re following us in our endeavours. Only reason I go UKAR is to follow Meteor progress

cheers

John

I pop my nose in once a month or so, purely to see what nice new treasures Air Ministry has exhumed from the garage and to see how the Stirling Project is coming along. 

All 3 of the projects I am involved in now have threads bubbling away nicely over on UKAR, and while it’s not what this place was, it’s better than nowt and at least there’s enough footfall and feedback there to make it worthwhile.

There are generally a couple of subjects worth a read i find. It will rise again, especially after a decent season of airshows and aircraft moves  

Sadly, I tend to visit more in hope than expectation …..

I visit daily, likewise UKAR now. Rarely is there anything of interest at either but it’s good to know they’re there.

I used to visit once a day, today is my first visit for a couple of months.

As someone who has grown up with social media in their lives from the get go i must admit that the move to FB groups is actually really annoying. Yes they are great for in the moment talks but trying to find info later on seems to never quite be as simple (quite like the old search function). I like the forum as a corner of the internet away from the constant other stuff that goes with FB. 

The refresh showed that we are here on the whim of Key but it still feels that bit more long lasting than the info on a social media giant. 

Interesting post, and it is always encouraging when someone takes the time to put together a comprehensive and thoughtful contribution.

Facebook is certainly out there, and I make some use of it, but with a degree of reluctance, like going into a pub you have never really liked, because otherwise you will be outside , talking to yourself!

I most dislike its transitory nature, a momentary exchange that is instantly overtaken by the next momentary exchange, but nothing really endures.

With this forum, over 18 years or so, we built a huge body of reference material, we covered EVERYTHING, and uncovered and recorded facts and memories that are nowhere else. It was unique, precious and probably can’t be replicated because so many people are no longer alive.  I think that is at the core of the anger directed at Key, and the people who effectively trashed the forum. They just did not know what they were doing, due to either ignorance or stupidity. Both are unforgiveable. 

But the forum is still here in a least some form of functionality,  the content from previous years can sometimes be accessed, depending how you search for it. It IS the best we have at present (for fb resisters ) and can certainly perform a useful function, but of course that depends on enough people troubling to contribute, with content, opinions, photographs and news.

It needs more than a handful of people to do the heavy lifting, it has to be a team effort.

I had been a regular poster on both Key and the WIX forums for the last 15 years (1,775 posts – I have to get a life lol) and would read both sites daily.

I was also a poster and reader of the Australian “Warbirdz” forum but that was a financial drain on its owner and closed.

We can all lament the disaster of the forum software upgrade and the loss of long term and informative contributors / posters.

Its very clear Key Aero saw these forums as a major element of their digital marketing and transition strategy but failed to do any customer survey of their existing customers before doing the “upgrade”/“refresh” or whatever was proposed and approved by management.

But its not that fiasco or Covid that is causing the drop in posters.

Just like Covid and working from home has changed the work life balance, the rise of FaceBook Groups is challenging the tradional bulletin board type discussion forums.

Yes – facebook feeds and private messaging is not suitable for the long and ongoing technical debates with pictures that these forums are suited to, but FaceBook Groups are.

I can get up in the morning and see the recent activities in FB Groups that are created and dedicated to a specific aircraft or airline or military service that I have joined.

I can search and find other groups or create my own.

I and others can post and reply with long counts of text and with embedded photos.

I can choose to opt in to following one or more Facebook Groups specifically on my preferred topics of interest and don’t need to page back over threads I have no interest in reading as occurs in a traditional forum like this.

I used to dread the UK Airshow season as the Historic forum flooded with threads of photos of the same aircraft from the same angle from the same position on the fence by tens or score of photographers wanting to showcase their photos, creating the dedicated Photo forums was the best thing that ever occured here, and I have never been in there since, but I am sure those interested were motivated to do so.

I hardly come to here or WIX any more, I would be lucky to average once a month, but I still see and have debates with Bruce or Mark12 – but there and not here, so I am not the only one finding Facebook capable of “meeting my needs”

I can take a discussion into Private Messenger and the people I chat to are real and identified not hiding behind an anonymous “handles”

published hard copy magazines had already been dying long before Covid but many more have died in recent years (and not just Aviation titles), Key Aero have some important and much loved aviation magazine titles to promote and manage lest they die too, eventually even those are likely to need to become subscription based digital eMagazines rather than printed copies sitting in Newsagent shops around the world hoping for opportunity sales.

I havent “left” here or felt a need to announce that I have “left”, but I don’t come here very often any more and “above” is the reasons I don’t- its not simply the new format or change in functionality, or the loss of some valuable posters and a reduction in forum activity – its because there is competion for my attention and a service at my fingertips, with disrupters and digital transitions occuring that some companies and their traditional products and services will not survive.

Interestingly I don’t see Facebook advertising in KP magazines or in the digital banners on this forum site, but I am not the only one recognising the marketplace value that FB creates.

https://m.facebook.com/KeyAeroMags/

JB & others

This should be a ‘broad church’ – catering for all tastes.  Especially those with strong views !

If that happens, life and vigour will return.

I quite agree, Sopwith.  The viability of a historic aircraft forum should not ( and is not ) defined by the participation of any specific individuals.  Various people with particular knowledge or experience have come and gone, which is exactly what you would expect.  We all kind of blew in here, and inevitably,  people drift away as well.

There is no merit in pining for the return of those who elected to withdraw –  if they do, great, if not,  well, things move on.  All organisations constantly evolve, it is just that you usually do not really notice. Here, we had a seismic shock, which repelled many members all that they same time, and we certainly did notice !

It is worth persevering with, because there still exists great interest in the subject, but to build anything up from scratch ( re-build in this case )  can be lonely, hard-work, and sometimes demoralising , which is where we are now.  

I have said before that the key ( no pun intended ) is ‘fresh meat’,  ie posting NEW topics for discussion, and everyone with an interest in this forum flourishing needs to ‘do their bit’ 

We should take inspiration from Churchill .  ” Keep Buggering On” !

In reply to your above post J Boyle, I must admit I believe everyone is valuable in a forum, because not everyone is an expert in all fields of knowledge, for instance Mark12 being a known authority on Spitfires may not be familiar with timing the mag on a Gipsy Major but someone else on here who knows nothing of Spitfires may well be very versed in doing so and could answer a question regarding that very abley.

I totally agree about what you said regarding the moderators, but we need all sorts here, enthusiasts,historians, restorers and even the people that ask what is this or such and such is on television. How many times have you or others not realised a programme was on and would have missed it if not for the poster’s “heads up”?

Before the forum went tits up we had all that and it was a great place to visit and ask and learn, so we do need everybody.

To lure back some of the old valuable members, they’ll need to be sure that other expert members will join them.

No offense meant to any who may for this description, but you’ll need more people the quality of Jeepman and MK 12 and not the  “There is a film on channel four” or the ever popular “What is this a  piece of? (So I can flog it on ebay?” 

As I noted in a similar thread not too long ago, this forum had issues before the Key makeover…ego driven moderators, too many silly nationalistic fanboys instead of serious historians and enthuiastts.

Can the forum be revived? 

Only if the former quality members return.

Good post nothing, If this forum was to be put back as some would like it will not bring back the dead, Key know this so leave it as is and see where it goes as we all had to get used to previous incarnation and the slow loss of forumites that always departed with each update, obviously this update that is way into its second year did cause the most destruction of all but honestly who did it hurt the most, key ? I fear not, us the forum member, yes we lost the most of all, a FREE substrate  paid by another.

The sad loss of  those knowledgeable people here has had a big impact as its taken away those threads that gave us all so much content just look at The Duxford Diary,  daily updates, Spitfires in Burma, the Geophys  experts gone some because of the nastiness of others that frequented this forum and nearly all of those were ‘flouncers’ demanding this and that along with post counts and having user names that state they have been here  two million years with two million posts FFS get over yourselves just start  a new member name so what you posted two million times I am grateful and others were grateful too for you’re contributions but the badge with the stars on is a nothingness to me.

Its been a bumpy old ride for sure and I say thank you to all that still frequent just looking and those posting, It is what it is go with the flow or go with no show.

No insult intended Jeepman.  I flounced out (with a few others) in either 2004 or 2005; went back a week later to discover the thread had been deleted and most of the others had sneaked back in before me anyway. 

Many others have ‘flounced’ out over the years – I could be wrong but wasn’t that the reason that Plane Talk (the Flypast Expats?) was started, so that they would have somewhere to go? 

Key don’t give a damn about anyone leaving or joining – they could justifiably claim ‘x’ thousands of members, not active members mind you, without any need to make it up to anyone who asks so why bother about one less person looking in. 

Back in the day we could communicate with veterans, with people who were well known within the historic aviation community, with pilots and restorers, with historians, with the knowledgeable or those who knew how to track information down.  No idea if the same could be claimed by any of the other forums but the Modern Military forum is deader than flares, and I can’t imagine any of the others are in any fit state to hold their Christmas party in anywhere larger than a telephone box.  Keys housekeeping is lousy though, with that survey sticky (dated 29/5/20) still at the top of the page although the link is deceased.

If we want this place we will have to just keep going, so that those who poke their noses in will see something that they hopefully want to be part of.

Sorry if this reads like a disjointed ramble but I just finished working an 18 hour shift and am trying to wind down.

A little presumptuous Jeepman to think Key would decide now they had got it all wrong and they will reinstate the old type of forum after all this time and the devastation that the departure of ‘THE MANY’ leaving it to ‘THE FEW’ of us to carry on would bring ‘THE MANY’ back.

WOW

Sing it loud and sing it clear Propstrike,

What’s in the verse that’s not to like,

The world’s a stage without a mic,

If applause is muted then take a hike !

(with apologies to the Bard)

Now you’re showing your age, PS!

The Poster’s Lament

Should I stay or should I go now?
Should I stay or should I go now?
If I go there will be trouble
And if I stay it will be double
So come on and let me know

This indecision’s buggin’ me 
If you don’t want me, set me free 
Exactly whom I’m supposed to be 
Don’t you know which clothes even fit me? 
Come on and let me know 
Should I cool it or should I blow? 

I’m not a member of the “me,me,me” generation so…..

Wasn’t so much a “flounce” as a final attempt to try and make Key sit up and take notice of the actual effect of their ill starred “update”.

Could have just walked away quietly once and for all after 16 years without all the un-necessary accusations of flouncing etc from other forum members, but would Key have noticed. I doubt it. They seem not to have noticed previously when other members just melted away

This way the long term effects of the “update” are at least again raised to the top of the page and it has to be said, again underlines the weight that Key attaches/attached to long standing members of the forum, many of whom supported Key in the earliest days with subscriptions when FlyPast was their only publication.