Immigration the Election and my Girlfriend

I agree with you – there is a lot of mindless racism, hatred and bigotry. But one of the other problems is that accusations of being those things are levelled at those pointing out genuine concerns. The Fast Track Visa scheme, for instance, was massively abused (and who knows, may still be – haven’t been keeping up with the news recently) and not only by those applying, but also by those in charge of the scheme. When IT ‘specialities’ like Delphi or C++ programming are classed as ‘skills in short supply’ when every such vacancy on Jobserve gets 150+ applicants, you have to wonder why. Government bowing to pressure from greedy businesses who want cheap foreign labour? Surely not!

Surely Yes, I would think.
As I said above the owners of companies siting around at the golf club, reading the Telegraph and banging on about how bad the country is and supporting that nice Mr Howard are often the worst offenders when it comes to making a fast Buck.

It sickens me that so many others just fall into the trap of blaming the immigrants.

Blair once rather stupidly said that the class war is over. There, he and I disagree.
I reckon it hasn’t really started yet.

Later
A…

I’m not really sure what you’re trying to say Andy. Are you accusing me of being a bigot? If you are, please just say so and explain why you think that.

No Damien, I’m not accusing you of that at all.
I’m sorry if you got that impression.
However, I am fed up with much of the bigotry I read on here.

I was trying to illustrate that the type of bigotry apparent then, is still very apparent now.
We may have made laws to make it illegal but scratch away the surface and there it is, still there under the surface, blaming this week’s new immigrants who in a generation have integrated, acquired degrees and are paying taxes.
Sadly the bigots don’t seem to move on–they stay un-employable like the previous generation of bigots who no doubt sired them.

Later
A…

I blame the government as already mentioned, for allowing it to happen. Employers will naturally do anything possible to maximise profit.

Fifty or sixty years ago Britain actually had a manpower shortage what with the huge amount of rebuilding necessary after WWII, and the human losses too. Immigration made a lot more sense then, particularly of builders and labourers.

Correct Damien.
It still didn’t stop people putting signs up in pubs, clubs, restaurants and boarding houses saying ‘No Irish’ though.
They also put signs up saying ‘No Blacks’ too and other less acceptable names.

Bigotry is such an attractive condition, don’t you think?

Andy.

I’m blaming the government for issuing work visas for industries that clearly do not have a skills shortage.

Actually Damien, although a lot of IT development work is contracted out to Indian firms, thanks to modern telecommunications the work itself takes place in India and not in the UK.

Visas aren’t an issue in this instance, because nobody moves anywhere.

From the delightful Comet….

“You want my answer, here it is. You say you have a problem with people who “beg off the state when they should be working”. Do you know what it is like to have to “beg off the state”?”

I am not employed, but I do not beg off the state. I receive the benefit I am entitled to, nothing more. Were I fit and able to do so I would without hesitation resume my career as a carer for children with physical and learning disabilities. I have tried to find other employment and am always asked for interview, until they find out the limitations imposed by my medical condition.

“I have no option but to “beg off the state” because Blair and all the other parties have effectively written off the over 25s. If you are unemployed and unfortunate enough to be over 25, then there is absolutely NO meaningful job training available to you whatsoever. OK, there is the New Deal, but for under 25s (who only have to be unemployed for 6 months before they qualify for this scheme) there is a training allowance paid for them to work towards a recognised qualification. The New Deal for over 25s (who have to be unemployed for 18 months to qualify, if that’s not discrimination then I don’t know what is) does not provide any money for training towards a qualification because it is assumed that all over 25s have the necessary experience. If you don’t have the relevant experience there is nothing available to you are you are on the scrapheap my friend.”

Do you have the experience to wash up? Clean a toilet? There are any number of jobs an articulate and amenable person like you could undertake. Unless of course, you feel they are beneath you, perhaps more suited to an immigrant?

“The government says we need immigrants to fill the jobs caused by a skills shortage. If there is such a skills shortage, then why not train the over 25s to do this work? I want nothing more than to have a job, earn my own money and get off the bloody dole, but until this legalised age discrimination is outlawed then how the hell can I?”

See above. Many immigrants have come to this Country and trained and retrained and done menial work while they have trained. Weren’t you doing marine biology? Why not follow a career there?

“In West yorkshire last week, a woman was denied hydrotherapy treatment because she was not Asian. Why should the British people be expected to tolerate such racism against us? If this had been the other way round and someone Asian had been denied this treatment on the grounds of race, then there would have been all hell on.”

As Grey Area asked, please provide us with links to the story. I’m sure when you were at University you were encouraged to back up youe arguments with fact.

“A few years ago, a woman died waiting for treatment at a Yorkshire hospital. Her operation for cancer was cancelled about five times because the hospital kept saying they had no available beds, but the same hospital was able to provide an intensive care bed, and treatment for, a Kosovan terrorist. Why should British people have to wait behind an import for medical treatment?”

Again, evidence please. A bed is not necessarily the issue here. Was a surgeon and surgical team available? Was the operation to be palliative in nature? What was the “terrorist” convicted of? Why was he in the UK? Evidence, please…..

“The goverment recently pledged hundreds of millions of taxpayers money to the tsunami appeal, but hospitals have to close departments and cancel operations because of lack of funds. If hundreds of millions is available for Indonesia, why isn’t it available for the NHS? And why wasn’t it available for the residents of Boscastle when their village was washed away by floods?”

Someone else has already answered this more eloquently than I. But obviously, being the bigot you are, you would prefer to donate money anywhere than to people who lost everything, including their loved ones, because they don’t fit your image of decent human beings.

“Why should schoolchildren be told they cannot celebrate Christmas because it might offend Muslims? If you went to a Muslim country the locals would not cancel their religious festivals because they might be offensive to Christians.”

I live in an area with a much higher Muslim population than sleepy Scarborough. That doesn’t happen here. Muslim children make things for Christmas and Easter, English kids (white) make things for Muslim festivals. Bear in mind that 90% of the Muslim children are also English.

“Why is there such an uproar about flying the Union Jack? If foreigners don’t like the sight of the flag then why don’t they go somewhere whose flag suits their requirements?”

It’s not the “foreigners” who dislike the flag. It’s the odd fundamentalist and the PC brigade who are afraid of causing offence.

“Why should scum like Abu Hamza be allowed to have streets closed off, and police protection, to incite hatred against Christians, Jews, Hindus, the west and anyone else who does not suit him? If that was someone British saying the same stuff about Islam and Arabs they would soon be arrested and charged with some offence or other.”

I may be wrong but I thought he was in prison. Wasn’t his Mosque, Finsbury Park?, closed down?

“Why should the British taxpayer have to pay millions for supporting asylum seekers when our pensioners have to sell their homes to fund care?”

Because that’s one of the things that makes Britain what it is! Not another Zimbabwe or Somalia etc., etc. Pensioners may in some cases be forced to sell their homes and that is wrong, but, there are issues surrounding that that don’t feature in this discussion.

“Those are my comments. I hope they meet with your approval, but if not, I really couldn’t give a damn. People might find my views unpalatable, but to be honest I find the views of left wingers, do gooders and Amnesty International supporters even more unpalatable.”

We know you couldn’t give a damn. That’s part of the problem. You have this insane belief that Britain owes you the lifestyle you aspire to. It doesn’t. The fact that you wasted your University education on a subject you lost interest in is no-one’s fault but your own. Maybe the career fairy will leave all you desire under your pillow one cold and frosty morning. If not, you’ll just have to do the best you can like the rest of us.

Regards,

kev35

Building sites in London have been populated in low paid foreign workers for about ten years.
They work for about half what the locals will.
Thing is though, who do you blame, the workers or the employers?
Many of whom make a point of laying on none of the facilities that workers should have. They also still charge the jobs out at the same rate and often they’re the people that make the biggest noise about immigration.

Of course this is nothing new. It’s the way the Irish were treated fifty or sixty years ago.

Still doesn’t make it right though.

But how are you defining citizens? People who hold British passports? People who were born here? People who have lived here for a certain amount of time? I don’t really understand how to make a distinction given that immigration has been going on since the beginning of time. Somewhere along the line most people are probably immigrants.

😮 In that case I am a JF 😮

I’m not.
British through and through.
Proud of it too.

As for just saying what people want to hear–well plainly these people don’t know me.

😮 In that case I am a JF 😮

Yes, come on Swift.

We’re all waiting to hear what you mean by a “JF”……

Do all bigots live by the seaside, I wonder………

“Johnny Foreigner” I should imagine :rolleyes:

Steve

Yes, come on Swift.

We’re all waiting to hear what you mean by a “JF”……

Do all bigots live by the seaside, I wonder………

Well done Comet somebody else who deals in the truth, ignore the rest there either writing it because they think thats the way they should be, or they are JF’s themselves.

What’s a JF?

Well done Comet somebody else who deals in the truth, ignore the rest there either writing it because they think thats the way they should be, or they are JF’s themselves.

Part-Time Voluntary Work for SOC

Minutemen Plan To Patrol San Diego Border

Minutemen volunteers in Arizona have wrapped up their month-long stint monitoring the Arizona-Mexico border for illegal immigrants.

Now, in San Diego, volunteers for a border watch program hope to have the same success.

The group called “Friends of the Border Patrol” says the rusty metal fence along the border is not doing its job to keep immigrants out.

Members hope to have more than a thousand volunteers trained and ready by the end of the summer to help agents stop border crossings.
“This isn’t about race, this isn’t about ethnicity, where we come from. This is about…look at 9/11…that’s what it really comes down to. How many more buildings have to fall?” said Andy Ramirez who is with Friends of the Border.
Opponents, such as President Bush, call the volunteers vigilantes.

However, Governor Schwarzenegger has praised the minutemen for their efforts at the nation’s borders.

Steve

[QUOTE]One of many problems with current immigration policy is the allowing of cheaper foreign labour into the country – IT has suffered badly, with many UK residents forced out of the industry or forced to emigrate elsewhere precisely because of the introduction of cheap (often Indian) personnel. Having seen first-hand the relative quality of work from cheap labour, I can object not only on the classic “they are taking our jobs” line, but also on the “…and they’re crap at it” basis. Businesses, of course, only care about profit and so lower wage overheads beat quality of final product every time.

You know, Robert Kiljoy Berk made similar comments about Polish builders undercutting local workmen. The problem with this sort of view is that we have a minimum wage, now at £4.85 ph. Suppose I as a local building contractor, were to advertise a dozen positions in the local paper and jobcentre for skilled tradesmen, plumbers, electricians, joiners, brickies and plasterers. Say I get 70 odd applicants. If some of these applicants, whether Brits or otherwise were to say “I’ll work for £4.00, not the £4.85 min wage”, I’d be breaking the law If I took them up on their offer, no matter how desperate they were to work.

The bigger problem for British industry and even call centre workers is NOT that foreigners are “coming over here, taking our jobs”. That’s so 1960’s. Jobs can be exported at a few straokes of a pen. Do Indian call centre workers have to move to Coventry or Bradford to provide call services to British business? NO! They can provide this service from Calcutta and Bombay. If any British jobs are lost to Indian call centre workers, I for one do NOT blame the Indian operators. They have to eat like you or I. I blame the cooporations first.

[QUOTE]The goverment recently pledged hundreds of millions of taxpayers money to the tsunami appeal, but hospitals have to close departments and cancel operations because of lack of funds. If hundreds of millions is available for Indonesia, why isn’t it available for the NHS? And why wasn’t it available for the residents of Boscastle when their village was washed away by floods?

With all due respect Comet, this is a somewhat blinkered view. The tsunami appeal, and yes, I did contribute, albeit in a small way, was there to help people who’ve lost just about everything if not their own lives. The tragedy in Boscastle, which although tragic for those concerned, is not directly comparable. The tsunami affected MILLIONS. Boscastle was a localised incident.

Many if not most of the inhabitants of Boscastle will have taken out home insurance, both contents and building. Whilst this may not be any consellation, they should get some recompense for theire suffering. Do you think an Indonesian fisherman whose lost his little boat will have taken out insurance with the Prudential?

The two biggest probs with the immigration debate are these….

A) Listen to Micheal Howard and indeed many a politition talk, not to mention rags like the Daily Mail, and they’ll mention mmigration, illegal immigration and asylum in the same paragraph. This just muddies the waters and drags the argument down. No wonder people are confused. And when people are confused, they’re easier to manipulate.

B) Ask most white people in Britain what the percentage of non whites is and they’ll on average tell you it’s around 26%. 26%!!! The actuall figure is around 8%. The 26% figure is based on people looking at parts of inner city London Brixton, Notting Hill), Birmingham, Bristol, Leeds, Manchester, Bradford, Burnlry, and Leicester and thinking ALL British cites are “overrun” by blacks and asians.

For example, where I live , here in Leeds, it would be described as a “black” area. In fact, there are also asian, as well as those from Eastern Europe who’ve lived here for years. For example, an elderly couple who live at the end of my street are Polish. They’ve lived there for over 30 years as far as I know. The area where I live was originally known as a jewish neighbourhood.

This reminds me of a conversation I had with a calssmate in highscool many years ago. he asked “why did my parents come from the Carribbean with all that sun”. I had to explain to him that the British gov’t of the time invited many people from the commonwealth to fill many vacncies post WWII. My former classmate could be excused because of his youth. What about many adults I hear still making the same sort of comments todey….??

I have no option but to “beg off the state” because Blair and all the other parties have effectively written off the over 25s. If you are unemployed and unfortunate enough to be over 25, then there is absolutely NO meaningful job training available to you whatsoever. OK, there is the New Deal, but for under 25s (who only have to be unemployed for 6 months before they qualify for this scheme) there is a training allowance paid for them to work towards a recognised qualification. The New Deal for over 25s (who have to be unemployed for 18 months to qualify, if that’s not discrimination then I don’t know what is) does not provide any money for training towards a qualification because it is assumed that all over 25s have the necessary experience. If you don’t have the relevant experience there is nothing available to you are you are on the scrapheap my friend.

I think the general idea is that by the time you are 25 you are old enough to stand on your own two feet and not expect handouts by the state. I know huge numbers of people who have had dramatic career changes late in life. They did it through hard work and commitment and didn’t expect the state to hold their hand. There is no such thing as a free lunch in this world – if you want something you have to go out and get it. Simple as that. I have spent 3 years at higher education and plan to do two more before getting to a firm and working as a trainee for two years. It will have taken me seven years to get qualified. As a result I will be able to do a job I am interested in and command a good salary. I haven’t expected the state to fund my education and I would resent my future taxes going to the unemployed whingers with no commitment. I truly believe in the ability of the individual to better themselves and I can’t stand these attitudes.

I am sorry if this sounds radical but I do feel quite strongly about this issue. I have worked hard all my life and don’t see why I should end up paying for people who have opted out of effort until the age of 25 and then realised that you actually need to work for a living.

Ps. that was actually quite a right view for a ‘left wing whiner’ like myself. i’m even a member of Amnesty!!!! 😀

Dux – good luck for the future: it will be hard but you know in yourself it will be worth it.

Flood[/QUOTE]

Thanks Flood, I am not known for doing anything easy to be honest.
In Lena i have found a real diamond and any struggles will be worth it as you say.

When my sister went to study to become a nurse, in the mid 1980s, she was just one of three Britons on her intake – the rest were Irish (not sure of their numbers, though). When she completed her training there were no jobs available in Britain: if she’d had experience then they (apparently) would have taken her and retrained her, but they weren’t interested in taking on newly qualified nurses. I believe one of her friends went off to Australia, she was offered posts in the Middle East and America (many trained nurses went aboard, but she wanted to work in the NHS!), and most of the Irish returned home. So my sister did some agency nursing (working in understaffed wards for hospitals who wouldn’t take on inexperienced nurses) until financial cutbacks closed that option, then went into hospitality in the hope that she could return to nursing when the requirements changed (something everybody in the profession could apparently foresee).
The last time she spoke of the friends she went through nursing training with none were in the profession: she is currently a train driver on maternity leave, for example. Of course, had they trained as NHS managers they probably would all still be involved in the industry, maybe involved in the importation of nurses from other nations and cultures – seemingly the only way our hospitals can get enough staff for the wards these days.

Dux – good luck for the future: it will be hard but you know in yourself it will be worth it.

Flood

You want my answer, here it is. You say you have a problem with people who “beg off the state when they should be working”. Do you know what it is like to have to “beg off the state”?

I have no option but to “beg off the state” because Blair and all the other parties have effectively written off the over 25s. If you are unemployed and unfortunate enough to be over 25, then there is absolutely NO meaningful job training available to you whatsoever. OK, there is the New Deal, but for under 25s (who only have to be unemployed for 6 months before they qualify for this scheme) there is a training allowance paid for them to work towards a recognised qualification. The New Deal for over 25s (who have to be unemployed for 18 months to qualify, if that’s not discrimination then I don’t know what is) does not provide any money for training towards a qualification because it is assumed that all over 25s have the necessary experience. If you don’t have the relevant experience there is nothing available to you are you are on the scrapheap my friend.

The government says we need immigrants to fill the jobs caused by a skills shortage. If there is such a skills shortage, then why not train the over 25s to do this work? I want nothing more than to have a job, earn my own money and get off the bloody dole, but until this legalised age discrimination is outlawed then how the hell can I?

Also, I am sick of hearing about how individuals who have been granted asylum in this country are then plotting terror attacks against us because they hate the west. If they hate the west so much then why do they insist on coming here? No one forces them to live here.

In West yorkshire last week, a woman was denied hydrotherapy treatment because she was not Asian. Why should the British people be expected to tolerate such racism against us? If this had been the other way round and someone Asian had been denied this treatment on the grounds of race, then there would have been all hell on.

A few years ago, a woman died waiting for treatment at a Yorkshire hospital. Her operation for cancer was cancelled about five times because the hospital kept saying they had no available beds, but the same hospital was able to provide an intensive care bed, and treatment for, a Kosovan terrorist. Why should British people have to wait behind an import for medical treatment?

The goverment recently pledged hundreds of millions of taxpayers money to the tsunami appeal, but hospitals have to close departments and cancel operations because of lack of funds. If hundreds of millions is available for Indonesia, why isn’t it available for the NHS? And why wasn’t it available for the residents of Boscastle when their village was washed away by floods?

Why should schoolchildren be told they cannot celebrate Christmas because it might offend Muslims? If you went to a Muslim country the locals would not cancel their religious festivals because they might be offensive to Christians.

Why is there such an uproar about flying the Union Jack? If foreigners don’t like the sight of the flag then why don’t they go somewhere whose flag suits their requirements?

Why should scum like Abu Hamza be allowed to have streets closed off, and police protection, to incite hatred against Christians, Jews, Hindus, the west and anyone else who does not suit him? If that was someone British saying the same stuff about Islam and Arabs they would soon be arrested and charged with some offence or other.

Why should the British taxpayer have to pay millions for supporting asylum seekers when our pensioners have to sell their homes to fund care?

Why should criminals be able to sue victims of crime?

Those are my comments. I hope they meet with your approval, but if not, I really couldn’t give a damn. People might find my views unpalatable, but to be honest I find the views of left wingers, do gooders and Amnesty International supporters even more unpalatable.

Intresting mix of things you thrown up there comet, Some i can agree with some i can not.Some are really are bigotry.
Firstly i have been unemployed twice in my life and know the feeling of writing letter and appling for jobs week in week out and getting refused, I also remember the queue every two weeks to sign my name to get my money, I admit a large part of the reason i was jobless is a qualified as a Engineer and wanted to use this skill if i had lowered my aim i probably would have got a job easier, My Ex girlfriend is a prime example of this she has no particular qualifications or skills as such but managed to get 4 job offers in as many weeks after she came off sickpay due to ill health, Admittedly this is in Croydon not Yorkshire, She was 27 at the time.

Terrorism and immigration a intresting one as from what i have seen many of those who have been arrested for so called plots are actially born and bred in Britain and how short our memories are reguarding the IRA who often were recruiting English people as well as Irish to carry out there attacks, The terror situation is not a good one but its not all down to immigration.

The whole of the Western World pledged money for the Tsunami and i am told that the Government keeps such funds for Emergencies like these.

Yes Abu Hamza is trouble and incites trouble thats why so much Police time and money is spent on him, Do you think the Police or Goverment want that? I think not.

The thing you say about Muslims and Christmas at school is sadly a case of extreme P.C but if you talk to most muslims they have no problem with Christmas in schools etc and understand we are a Christian country, Its not normally the Muslims who complain on this.

Can’t comment on the Hospital situation i lost my father through MRSA but it has nothing to do with immigration.The fact is that UK based people are not going in to nursing so much thats why we have to employ from abroad and usually we get very good staff by doing so, I can not fault how my Dad was treated in his time in Hospital i do fault the fact he got MRSA.

I pose a question to you though Lena will come here and do any LEGAL job whether it be cleaning or something alike until she can get her Qualification so she can teach here and help our future children with Languages etc, She will be a tax payer as i am and a good citizen, Not costing the country a penny, Is this wrong?

I’d welcome most folk in. Skilled workers, holiday makers, students and a limit on asylum seekers. These folk need help, and maybe our help can get them a start on life.

I’d love to Immigrate to NZ, however I don’t meet the points criteria.

Comet, that’s rubbish. You beg off of the state because you can’t get a career? Get a job in a call centre, delivery driver etc etc. They are basically unskilled but will pay £200 + per week! If there aren’t enough beds in Hospitals then pay more tax, Contribute. I do agree with some of your views on Criminals suing the victim.

We have loads of folk in the country who are on benefits, single parents getting £400 per month for child care etc etc. It’s my tax that pays for it, I don’t agree with parents who have kids then ask for help but hey it happens and these kids will be looking after me in my old age.

I have no kids, receive no benefits. Nobody helps me, but I struggle on…….

What I’d like to see is tax money used to pay for kids schemes rather than paying for methadone in their later years.

dme