Hmmmm its in the red top so obviously a lack of news.
I cannot see it myself, bit of a stable of the UK skies over the summertime.
Mods not sure if this should be here, sorry if wrong place.
By: charliehunt - 20th February 2013 at 19:14
paul/David – fair enough – it doesn’t matter much but just seemed inconsistent, that’s all.:)
By: David Burke - 20th February 2013 at 19:00
Charlie -its because its the Red Arrows -if it were regards something like 100 Squadron with a similar aged machine it would have disappeared to MM long ago -people get excited about it!
By: paul1867 - 20th February 2013 at 17:46
shouldn’t it be in MM?:confused:
MM = MODERN Military. 🙂
By: charliehunt - 20th February 2013 at 17:01
Not if it is in service with the RAF flown by and supported by regular serving aircrew, or have I misunderstood the definitions of the different fora?
Me too!:)
By: paul1867 - 20th February 2013 at 16:55
I still fail to understand what this is doing in Historic – shouldn’t it be in MM?:confused:
Does a 33 year old plane not count as historic?
Or perhaps the notion we can afford the Red Arrows is historic.
But don’t get me wrong I am strongly in the keep camp.
By: charliehunt - 20th February 2013 at 09:30
Well that neatly sums up the position! I still fail to understand what this is doing in Historic – shouldn’t it be in MM?:confused:
By: Arabella-Cox - 20th February 2013 at 09:23
Bonkers
Its mad- the UK is broke- so we borrow more money to give to India, money we cant pay back. They buy brand new Hawks with this money and we get our Red Arrows to help train them using i presume the 40 year old Hawks they have had since giving up the Gnats- Sorry but Politicians need to take a sharp reality check
By: Flanker_man - 20th February 2013 at 09:01
“A Downing Street source confirmed that as long as Mr Cameron remained in Number 10 the Red Arrows would continue to grace Britain’s skies.”
Barbary apes and Rock of Gibraltar ???
Ken
By: GrahamF - 20th February 2013 at 08:29
Cameron has said that as long as he is in number 10 the Red Arrows are safe, no shock at the mere suggestion, so they’re OK for the next 18 months while they hang on in Government .
By: trumper - 20th February 2013 at 08:27
Believe this if you can
Thats 2 years then
“A Downing Street source confirmed that as long as Mr Cameron remained in Number 10 the Red Arrows would continue to grace Britain’s skies.”
By: paul1867 - 20th February 2013 at 06:41
Believe this if you can
By: David Burke - 9th February 2013 at 10:03
The next defence review post Afghanistan will decide some tough cuts -the foreign aid budget whilst appearing to be a nice easy target undoubtedly helps our country’s influence in countries where stabilising and assisting governance is important.
By: VX927 - 9th February 2013 at 09:09
Well, since my last post on here we’ve given away £86MILLION to our friends in need (including those who can support their own space programme but need help from us for food and medicine!)
I think its fair to say that we can afford the Red’s for a few more years!
By: CIRCUS 6 - 9th February 2013 at 07:18
Gents,
The local MP ascertained whether the Reds would be canned, and guess what?? They’re safe for another year. See you in a year or so, so we can do this all over again…
By: bazv - 9th February 2013 at 06:41
The PC21 looks ‘underwinged’ from below (ie not enough wing area),one of the Pilatus TP’s told me that this was intentional – for speed !
We do not have a large fleet of Hawk T2’s,aerobatic teams do have a highish attrition rate for a/c (for various reasons) so I doubt that (at the moment) we could afford the T2 for a display team.
Also as I said previously – the T2 is a very different beast – The T1 is a fairly simple and easy to maintain a/c…the T2 has much more complicated systems – more akin to an operational a/c and would be much more expensive to operate than a T1 equipped team.
By: inverbrass - 9th February 2013 at 02:12
PC-21 is a super machine! – just saying. I really don’t think that the RAFAT provides any service or value for money anymore. An entire RAF station, 9+ aircraft 9+ pilots. I’d rather they were doing something useful like fending off the nasty *******s like the rest of us. But I do have a suggestion, Ascent should be allowed with the RAF to have a voluntary team of 7 or such on the new hawk at Valley – which is where all these teams started in the first place- as volunteers!
By: bazv - 6th February 2013 at 20:01
I know its all relative to peoples own perceptions, however this country GIVES AWAY nearly £1MILLION every hour (£8 Billion per year) in foreign aid. I’m not saying its not a worthy cause, but like I said, I don’t think £8.8M is too much… Others will, and I respect their opinions.
Agree with you absolutely…
Most of us have our own opinions about money matters
By: bazv - 6th February 2013 at 19:18
I am constantly amazed by the sniping at the Reds :rolleyes: it is easy for those of us who are closely involved with a/c to get jaded by a long established team but my impression is that many thousands of ‘Civvies’ absolutely adore the Reds !
The visits to Scampton are very well subscribed and the team appear to be as popular as they always have been with the general public,anybody who thinks that the RAF can afford to display a team of operational fast jets are going to be disappointed for the foreseeable future…a more complicated a/c has astronomical running costs…the Hawk T1 is a (relatively) cheap a/c to operate.
Even the Hawk T2 would be much more expensive to operate since it is a much more complicated a/c.
I guess one of the problems is that these guys make it look easy…and it really is not !!
Enjoy the Reds while you can 🙂
By: charliehunt - 6th February 2013 at 08:16
Des Browne: No specific study has been undertaken to assess the effect on recruitment and morale of maintaining the Royal Air Force Acrobatic Team, popularly known as the Red Arrows. That said, many potential recruits mention that one of the motivating factors for their interest in joining the RAF is the Red Arrows.[/I]
I had no idea they were gymnasts as well as pilots!!:rolleyes::rolleyes:
By: Cherry Ripe - 6th February 2013 at 07:36
Yes this is true. Look at the back of the Reds brochure and you’ll see who the Reds are ‘in association with’ or ‘supported by’. BAe Systems pay a huge chunk toward any (sales) tours, and engineering support.
I believe MoD policy is to to require industry support for specific overseas tours, not national displays and general operations.
BAE funding for such adventures will decline as Hawk production wanes. Edit: even the RAF preferred the Aermacchi 346 but to keep BAE going they were told to take the Hawk T.Mk.2.
The RAF continue to recruit, and while the Force still exists, they always will. If you’re a young person and look up and see the Reds flying in formation, you may well be inspired to strive to become a pilot or to join the RAF, job done.
Mr. Waterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what assessment he has made of the effect on (a) recruitment to and (b) morale of the RAF of maintaining the Red Arrows. [127004]
Des Browne: No specific study has been undertaken to assess the effect on recruitment and morale of maintaining the Royal Air Force Acrobatic Team, popularly known as the Red Arrows. That said, many potential recruits mention that one of the motivating factors for their interest in joining the RAF is the Red Arrows.
“Many”. Note lack of specifics. In any other industry, spending [Edit: in excess of] 9 million per annum without any measure of cost-benefit would be a “career threatening” move.
In my opinion: the RAFAT is a club for jet jockeys. It has no relevance to the everyday airman or officer. It has survived this long because of the preponderance of fast-jet pilots as ACM. That will change as rotary and non-cockpit trades push the dwindling fast-jet pool out of the way for the policy jobs at the top.
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February 2, 2013 at 2:57 pm