India sacks Siachen commander

Just you?

Flood.™

Bump. Still waiting for Zaheen

We have a nation in our neighbourhood that fools its public by making “home made” movies of its bravery on the battlefield,because they are unable to do that in a real battle scenario.

Why would someone make fake footage of killings?

As for “Generals who run away from battlefield by dislodging nurses”….any credible source to prove that?

I provided u info about ur BOLLYWOOD army through ur own sources 🙂

Lets keep this formal. :rolleyes:

You want sources? Heard of Hamoodur Rehman Commission report?

Anway, here’s a Pakistani columnist talking about one of the “brave” Generals who was mentioned in the HRC report.

http://www.dawn.com/weekly/ayaz/20010323.htm

But why dwell on a single scandal? Can anything be more graphic than the strictures against many army high-ups, some of them still living and enjoying good health, in the Hamoodur Rahman Report? But none of this damning criticism seems to have harmed anyone. My admiration in this respect goes out specially to Maj-Gen Rahim Khan, a divisional commander in East Pakistan and later, after we had washed our hands off the eastern wing, secretary-general, defence ministry.

What comes out clearly in the Hamood Report is that at a critical moment he virtually deserted his command, preferring the relative safety of Dhaka to the uncertainty of fighting. 😀 😀 In Siddiq Salik’s “Witness to Surrender” another aspect of the general’s gallantry is also revealed. In the final moments leading up to the fall of Dhaka, Rahim off-loaded a batch of army nurses as they were about to be flown by helicopter to Burma and got in himself. Obviously not a man to be underestimated. 😀 😀

The relevant part is in the Chapter 3 of the HRC report. To quote:

In the light of the information now available we now consider that Maj Gen Rahim Khan, GOC 39 (ad hoc) Division, should be tried by a court martial on the following charges:

(i) That he displayed shameful cowardice and undue regard for his personal safety in seeking, and obtaining, permission from the Eastern Command to abandon his Division and vacate his Divisional Headquarters from Chandpur on the 8th of December 1971, simply because Chandpur was threatened by the enemy, with the result that he deserted his troops and his area of responsibility in the middle of the war with India;

(ii) That by his wilful insistence on moving by day against competent advise, owing to fear of Mukti Bahini, caused the death of fourteen Naval ratings and four officers of his own HQ, besides injuries to several others.

(iii) That in his anxiety to get away from Chandpur, he willfully abandoned valuable signal equipment with the result that the communication system of the Division disintegrated and his subordinate commanders and troops were left to their own fate;

(iv) That he on the 12th of December, 1971, by word of mouth, caused alarm and despondency by General Niazi, Jamshed and Farman Ali that “it is all over , let us call it a day”‘ and that the Mukti Bahini might resort to massacre’

(v) That he willfully avoided submitting a debriefing report to GHQ, on being specially evacuated to Pakistan in early 1971, so as to conceal the circumstances of his desertion from his Div HQ at Chandpur with the consequence that the authorities were persuaded to appoint hi as Chief of the General Staff without any knowledge of his performance in East Pakistan.

Maj.Gen.Rahim, instead of courtmartialed, was promoted to Chief of General Staff and got a cushy retirement.

I have the list of many other Generals from the HRC report like Brig. G.M. Baqir Siddiqui, former COS, Eastern Command, Dacca , Maj Gen Mohammad Jamshed, ex-JOC 36 (ad hoc) Division, Dacca etc.

Not one of them was punished. Guys who lost Siachen for Pakistan were not punished. Here’s a Pakistani army officer in Dawn.

http://www.dawn.com/2003/07/19/letted.htm#5

The writer has aptly pointed out the total lack of professionalism of our generals, past and present. It is ironic that in Pakistan the generals are handsomely rewarded after military debacles. Examples abound but some are very glaring.

In 1987 a general lost the post in Siachen, he was temporarily removed from command but later promoted as Lieutenant-General. Afterwards he was posted to Turkey on a lucrative appointment. A corps commander bungled the operation in 90/91 in Siachen. The casualties were very high, including that of a promising brigadier. He survived unscathed. He pretended that he didn’t know about the operation.

In 1971 two brigadiers took massive beating from the enemy in Rahimyar Khan-Reti Sector, their battalions virtually broke but afterwards both were rewarded; one rose to become a lieutenant general and the other was made a joint secretary in the cabinet division. And who can forget the great general who left his troops in the forward defended localities in Chandpur (East Pakistan) Sector while the battle was still raging, fled to Burma by a helicopter after off-loading a nurse? Back in Pakistan being a good friend of Gul Hasan, he became chief of the general staff and on retirement was well looked after. The irony is that Niazi was never court-martialled, why should others be?

LT-COL (RETD) SAFIR A. SIDDIQUI

Bad apples exist everywhere. But in your land, they get promotions for being cowardly or incompetent or both. In other places, they get the boot.

Now that you have learnt about your nation’s army, stop flaming and get to posting decent stuff.

Please leave Americans out of this….some people with their complexes :rolleyes:

so whats the motive behind this thread….. flaming again i guess. Someone lock this please.

Don’t worry the Gripen deal has not come good but I am sure that Libyan Mirage 3s and 5s will tilt the balance in South Asia, no need for fight back threads. 🙂

In any event detente is on, relax, good times are ahead, make love not war.

Actually you never know Flood, it could actually work

Picture this scenario

Indian General found guilty by his own people and fired, nah that won’t work
how about this one

General M launches an attack across the LoC in 99, his army beaten retreats, the whole world condems the action saying “GO BACK TO YOUR SIDE”, a few months later the General decides he does not want to be a general anymore, President General suits him better, oops here goes the elected PM again. If you think that the American dream is something, try out for the Pakistani army, it will get you to power no matter what.
Wasn’t General Musharaff involved in the Saochen defeat in the 80s anyway, wan’t he a commando then, oh my how times have changed for our good General.

Sounds like a marvellous plot for a film – but I can’t see Hollywood making it as it is.
Maybe if you change the ending, change the bit about him lying, make him an American in Iraq, have some cheering crowds and a bit of gung-ho-ism and you could get Arnie to star in it…;)

Flood.™

Well at least this person got punished for his actions.

We have a nation in our neighbourhood that promotes Generals who run away from battlefield by dislodging nurses 😀

Then again, some nations have laws and some…

We have a nation in our neighbourhood that fools its public by making “home made” movies of its bravery on the battlefield,because they are unable to do that in a real battle scenario.

Why would someone make fake footage of killings?

As for “Generals who run away from battlefield by dislodging nurses”….any credible source to prove that?

I provided u info about ur BOLLYWOOD army through ur own sources 🙂

Lets keep this formal. :rolleyes:

Pathetic really. At a military level.

Well at least this person got punished for his actions.

We have a nation in our neighbourhood that promotes Generals who run away from battlefield by dislodging nurses 😀

Then again, some nations have laws and some…

Pathetic really. At a military level.

Siachen encounters fake, admits officer
By: PTI
May 29, 2004
——————————————————————————–Jodhpur: Commanding Officer of Gorkha battalion Col K D Singh today conceded before a military court here that the encounters in Siachen glacier region last year claimed by the then Commanding Officer on LoC Maj Surinder Singh were “fake”.

Two video cassettes submitted by Maj Singh along with the situation reports in August last year were “stage-managed”, Col Singh said continuing his deposition for the third consecutive day in the first ever army open trial, before the court headed by Brig Philip Campose.

“In the first instance, I found nothing wrong in the video cassettes but after closely observing the video clips I doubted authenticity of the incidents shown in them and sought clarification from Maj Singh on phone,” he said.

“Not only Maj Singh insisted that the said encounters were real but also others involved in the ‘fake encounter’ supported him initially,” Col Singh said.

However, rifleman Shyam Bahadur Thapa later spilled the beans by conceding that he had created the fake bunker for the video shoot, he said.

This was also conceded later by others involved in the incidents saying they had been made to keep a vow in the name of god that they would not reveal the ‘fake operation”, Col Singh said.

The Colonel said he also found that the video camera used in the shoot of fake encounter could not zoom into the target 800 feet away as claimed by Maj Singh.

He said the behaviour of Maj Singh with his subordinates was also not good as he is a “foul-mouthed” officer.

The military court is recording summary of evidence before start of court martial proceedings against officials indicted by a court of inquiry.

The court of inquiry had recommended disciplinary action against Maj Singh for making exaggerated claims and found Col K D Singh and Maj Rohit Lamba guilty of administrative lapses.

The recording of summary evidence in the military court was earlier schedueld to be held in Chandigarh but the venue was shifted to Jodhpur on a request by Maj Singh.

The military court is holding its proceedings in open for the first time allowing media persons to watch it. However, media persons are not allowed to take any notes inside the court room.

I dont think this is relevant for this forum, although quite interesting news……

Yeah…..very interesting news. 😉 False kashmir and siachen encounters…

hmmmmmm………..WHy would someone do that???

Yeah…me still wondering :rolleyes:

A TOUCH OF BOLLYWOOD??? I THINK Commanding Officer on LoC Maj Surinder Singh watched the bollywood flick “L.O.C.” or maybe “BORDER” or maybe “THE HERO” for quite a few weeks. His major influences. 😀

The Grippen humiliation really hurt and the intellect of Farrukh speaks volumes of what we have to deal with on afm, my God, just because Saichen is on top of a mountain does not mean that its modern millitary aviation related!
If you want to make fun, at least do it right!

Wow, that was fast! Thanks for moving this Webbi. My first non-modern aviation post on this board 🙂

You forgot two things – one is the evil laugh and secondly a line stating “This proves that we will get the Gripen or F-22”

In a Democracy the Generals are accountable to the Civilian Government.

In this case the Lieutenant-General has “Vacated Command” awaiting the completion of the enquiry.

Naturally the Madrassah Educated Media considers “Vacating” to be the same as “Sacking”

In a Dictatorship of the Jack Booted Tin Pots such infarctions are met with Grants of 400 Acres of Prime Land

I dont think this is relevant for this forum, although quite interesting news……