India test fires first under-sea missile

Not really, Please look up on Agni a bit, the Agni 2 and AT ranges was always underreported, true range being told by some biographies, and the Agni 3 is a new platform altogather to develope a new generation of missiles, in that sense Agni 3 with 2 stage is the precedeeser of the full fledged ICBM Agni 4 with a third stage, the Agni 3 already has more than 5k range [mentioned in host of interviews], it was tested in dampened trajectory, something of which you can make out if you see the launch pictures.

Range is a non issue for India, but this Sagarika range is a bit puzzling, lets wait for whats actually cooking. 700 kms doesnt cuts the ice or is enough to do the job…

I have done plenty of ‘looking up’ on Agni.

The current Agni series lacks range.

Not really, Please look up on Agni a bit, the Agni 2 and AT ranges was always underreported, true range being told by some biographies, and the Agni 3 is a new platform altogather to develope a new generation of missiles, in that sense Agni 3 with 2 stage is the precedeeser of the full fledged ICBM Agni 4 with a third stage, the Agni 3 already has more than 5k range [mentioned in host of interviews], it was tested in dampened trajectory, something of which you can make out if you see the launch pictures.

Range is a non issue for India, but this Sagarika range is a bit puzzling, lets wait for whats actually cooking. 700 kms doesnt cuts the ice or is enough to do the job…

Indian Agni missiles are rail mobile which means that they can be camouflaged and hidden anywhere on the vast Railway network in India. Even if they werent so mobile Pakistan doesnt have the space assets to detect them. Therefore they are not vulnerable to a first strike from Pakistan. The Chinese probably have a slightly better chance of detecting them with their satellites.

The current Agni series lacks range, so there is a certain area in which the missiles need to be in order to successfully hit Pakistan. If Pakistan has enough warheads of sufficient yields it should be able to hit most of the likely launch sites thus massively reducing India’s strike back capability. I doubt Pakistan is there yet.

India is actually very fortunate geographically, all it needs to do is develop increasingly long range missiles and mount them on submarines (as they actually plan on doing) ultimately when they have sufficient range deploy of the east coast of India and that is Pakistn checkmated.

Indian Agni missiles are rail mobile which means that they can be camouflaged and hidden anywhere on the vast Railway network in India. Even if they werent so mobile Pakistan doesnt have the space assets to detect them. Therefore they are not vulnerable to a first strike from Pakistan. The Chinese probably have a slightly better chance of detecting them with their satellites.

Ah yes , in our context , Credible second strike

700km makes this weapon less than ideal for use against China (if everyone here is honest they know that China and India are never going to fire nuclear weapons at each other) but it does mean that India can put its weapons to sea where Pakistan can to all intents and purposes not touch them. India’s current land based missiles, whilst mobile, do still suffer from potential vulnerability to a first strike.

Credible second strike.

Ah yes , in our context , Credible second strike

Not a bad idea , the SLBM/SSBN capability is more of china specific ( to put it bluntly ) than Pakistan specific.

India have over whelming capability to target pakistan , but for china its capability is limited to Agni-2 and Agni-3.

The ATV/SLBM capability is the first right step to have a credible N deterrence.

But the ultimate ATV should have SLBM with a range of 5000 plus KM.

Credible second strike.

I wonder who come up with the idea of China-specific missile…?

Not a bad idea , the SLBM/SSBN capability is more of china specific ( to put it bluntly ) than Pakistan specific.

India have over whelming capability to target pakistan , but for china its capability is limited to Agni-2 and Agni-3.

The ATV/SLBM capability is the first right step to have a credible N deterrence.

But the ultimate ATV should have SLBM with a range of 5000 plus KM.

The Kilos are offered with a VLS section added to allow vertical launch weapons to be carried. What is the point of leasing the Akula or for that matter the Typhoon for tests for launching a weapon, whether it be ballistic or otherwise when the Russians are unlikely to sell either vessel. The Indians are working on a new sub themselves but the vertical launch capability of the Kilo makes rather more sense… cheaper, already in service, and can be used to have Brahmos in Sub Service quickly. VLS missiles in subs are much more useful than torpedo launched missiles as they are all ready to fire and don’t preclude the immediate use of torpedoes if needed.

The Brahmos corp wanted a Kilo from IN just to test Brahmos from underwater or rather to test Brahmos sub surface launch capability.

The IN for one cannot lease a Kilo because of operational reasons.

In such case , they will have to test the sub surface Brahmos from some russian sub , that is ofcourse plan B , plan A is to lease a IN kilo and modify it accordingly to test VLS Brahmos.

IN doesn’t plan to convert its existing fleet of Kilo to be Brahmos capable.

Instead its planned next purchase of 6 SSK ( either a modified scorpene or Amur design) is suppose to come with that built in VLS capability.

Thats the point, the reporter is talking excrement. There have been repeated rumors that India would lease an Akula SSN (unlikely in my opinion)

sealordlawrence , the IN chief has already confirmed the lease of Akula SSN for the IN ( for a period of 10 years ) , The tentative date being June 2008.

This is most likely to be the Nerpa currently under sea trial

I wonder who come up with the idea of China-specific missile…?

India test fires submarine-launched ballistic missile
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India_test_fires_submarine-launched_ballistic_missile/articleshow/2817645.cms

27 Feb 2008, 0034 hrs IST,TNN
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NEW DELHI: India on Tuesday tested its K-15 submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM) from a submersible pontoon launcher off Visakhapatnam, amid some indications that the test was “not fully successful”.

Sources said the missile, which has a strike range of 700km, did not meet all the pre-flight parameters laid down for the test conducted from the launcher submerged under the sea just before 1pm. On being contacted, DRDO officials refused to say anything, holding that only M Natarajan, the scientific advisor to the defence minister, could clear the position over the test-firing of K-15.

“A test like this, even though from a pontoon launcher and not an actual submarine, generates an immense amount of data… The exact position can be given only after a detailed analysis,” said an official. It has taken around 10 years for India to even come to this stage of testing an SLBM, which has remained the preserve of the Big Five countries – US, Russia, China, France and UK.

DRDO chief controller Prahlada had told TOI earlier this month that this test would be the final test of K-15, which would then be ready to be integrated with the “mother ship”. The “mother ship”, of course, is a reference to the three indigenous nuclear-powered submarines being built at Visakhapatnam in the 25-year-old ATV (advanced technology vessel) project, which will overall cost around Rs 20,000 crore. The first of the three 6,000-tonne ATVs, each designed to carry 12 vertical-launched nuclear-tipped SLBMs, will be ‘ready to go to sea’ for trials by early 2009.

It will, however, take two to three years for the two-stage solid-fuelled K-15 to be integrated with the first ATV and then be test-fired from it.

When this happens, India will finally achieve its long-standing aim to have an operational ‘nuclear weapon triad’. India already has Agni-I (700-km range) and Agni-II (2000-km-plus) ballistic missiles, as also the Agni-III (3,500-km) which has been successfully tested only once so far, as the land-based nuclear deterrent. Fighters like Sukhoi-30MKI and Mirage-2000s, which can be jury-rigged to carry nuclear weapons, constitute the air-based leg. But the absence of nuclear-powered submarines, armed with the capability of fire nuclear-tipped missiles from under the sea, has been a gaping hole in India’s strategic capabilities.

The first test of Agni-III missile in July 2006, incidentally, had flopped miserably. Though the second test in April 2007 was successful, it will take at least three to four tests more for this China-specific missile to be fully-ready.

But why bad reporting?

The Kilos are offered with a VLS section added to allow vertical launch weapons to be carried. What is the point of leasing the Akula or for that matter the Typhoon for tests for launching a weapon, whether it be ballistic or otherwise when the Russians are unlikely to sell either vessel. The Indians are working on a new sub themselves but the vertical launch capability of the Kilo makes rather more sense… cheaper, already in service, and can be used to have Brahmos in Sub Service quickly. VLS missiles in subs are much more useful than torpedo launched missiles as they are all ready to fire and don’t preclude the immediate use of torpedoes if needed.

Thats the point, the reporter is talking excrement. There have been repeated rumors that India would lease an Akula SSN (unlikely in my opinion) and my suspicion is that the author just put Akula into google found, the Typhoon that can launch ballistic missiles and put two and two together to get five. The reality is that neither Akula or Typhoon is likely to be modified for Indian BM testing.

I agree with SeaL, its just bad reporting.

But why bad reporting? I am saying Akula is Typhoon, not the reporter. The real problem is the inflexibility of NATO codenames… they have changed codenames in the past for Soviet vessels after they learn the real name but they haven’t bothered with the Schuka and Akula. (ie Akula and Typhoon).

Kilo’s fire the club through the tubes not VLS. Anyway Kilos only carry 5 klubs not much.

The Kilos are offered with a VLS section added to allow vertical launch weapons to be carried. What is the point of leasing the Akula or for that matter the Typhoon for tests for launching a weapon, whether it be ballistic or otherwise when the Russians are unlikely to sell either vessel. The Indians are working on a new sub themselves but the vertical launch capability of the Kilo makes rather more sense… cheaper, already in service, and can be used to have Brahmos in Sub Service quickly. VLS missiles in subs are much more useful than torpedo launched missiles as they are all ready to fire and don’t preclude the immediate use of torpedoes if needed.

Kilo’s fire the club through the tubes not VLS. Anyway Kilos only carry 5 klubs not much.

The sub which Dr Prahlada was talking about was in context of Brahmos missile and not Sagarika.

So why would they need a Schuka-B sub to launch Brahmos? The Kilo can easily be modified to have an extra section added for vertical launch tubes… like they had them modified for Clubs, they could easily get a mix of Brahmos and Clubs on Kilos.

The ATV and future Indian subs after the Scorpene will have VLS tubes that can fire either Brahmos, Agni3 SL and maybe the Nirhay from the same launch area within the sub. I think K15 is just an intermediate technology demonstrator missile till the Agni3 SL is ready.

The DNA report got that wrong , The sub which Dr Prahlada was talking about was in context of Brahmos missile and not Sagarika.

Sagarika will be tested on board the ATV.

There is no point in leasing a Typhoon to fire a Sagarika 😀

As of now one typhoon is testing the Bulava , but ultimately all 3 typhoon will under go modernisation and armed with Bulava

India uses NATO names not russian names. The SAMs and Subs are called after the NATO reporting names.

However, this could be a while away as Russia is yet to respond to the Indian Navy’s request for loaning an Akula-class submarine that is capable of launching SLBMs.

It says that the Russians haven’t responded to the Indian navys request. So there are unquestionable currently no Typhoons up for lease but then again before the rumours started about India wanting to lease a Charlie class there were no Charlie class subs up for lease either, nor were there Schukas up for lease. What we do know is that Charlie class SSGNs were leased to India. There are nothing but rumours regarding SSNs and now SSBNs.

BTW India is not part of NATO and so is unlikely to use the NATO class name for a Russian vessel.

I agree with SeaL, its just bad reporting. No typhoons are up for lease. As for the xia if it can make it to the indian ocean it would be an enormous achievement.

My understanding is that at least one Typhoon is being used for testing of the Bulava SLBM. The fact that the Indians want to use one to test their own missile is interesting. Like borrowing a TOPOL-M truck to test a SCUD really.

I think this is more a case of bad reporting than anything else. The same article said that Sagarika used a turbojet engine. I suspect this is just some douche trying to be clever and linking back to the earlier rumors of SSN renting and getting confused.