By: Indian1973 - 19th July 2004 at 20:16
cant say anything of subs. all up in air and depends on funding and Govt support. IN has made public they want 6 scorpene off the shelf and build another 6. the Amur is likely a russian pressure deal idea in exchange for help on other fronts … 😉
no action is expected until next fiscal year march05.
By: Hyperwarp - 19th July 2004 at 20:01
perhaps subs are the main threat perception. PLAN has to think of carrier air wings first then lurking USN subs..well both really !
the PLAN 054 and 052B seem to have one helo while 052C seems
to have room for two.
Oh no! I personally think the big threat for the PLAN comes from the Seawolf and Virginia Class and even the older Los Angeles class subs. The PLAN has to find a way to tackle them. Submarines are the deadliest, the silent hunter-killers (just my opinion off-course).
is the following correct on imminent PLAN ships:
1 052B
2 052C
4 modernized Sovremeniy
8 Kilos 636?
1 051C (heavy AAW cruiser)
anymore 054 seen ?
more Songs ?
1 093 SSN
1 094 SSBN
I guess so, plus there would be the newer 054A (the 054 look alike with the 32 cell VLS, Type-730 CIWS).
Total would look like:
2 – 052B
2 – 052C
2 modernized Sovremeniy + 2 older ones
8 Kilos 636 + 4 older 877EKM
1 (or maybe more) 051C
2 – 054 (some claim another 2)
?? – 054A ??
8 – (or maybe more) 039
6-8 – 093 SSN (according to HT)
3-4 094 SSBN (according to HT)
Plus a new sub with AIP
Crobato, google, goldy etc, should no more. Any inputs gentlemen?
ordered & under construction IN ships:
3 P17 (2 building)
3 P15A (1 building)
1 Gorshkov
1 brahmaputra FFG
1 ADS carrier
IN upgrade:
Rajputs to get brahmos
remaning 6 Kilos to get Klub (4 upg is known)
Barak on some ships
Plus the 20+ new SSK (scorpene??), The leased Akula and if all goes well, 5 SSN correct?
By: Indian1973 - 19th July 2004 at 19:00
Hyperwarp, IN has 10 Kilos not 11.
also note the ships directly made in russia – rajputs and talwars
carry 1 ASW helo while the delhis, godavaris, brahmaputras and
P17 carry two each mostly sea king. the smaller IN ships like
the Kora have tested and will replace chetak with Dhruv which
has a torpedo.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Images/Godavari6.jpg
perhaps subs are the main threat perception. PLAN has to think
of carrier air wings first then lurking USN subs..well both really !
the PLAN 054 and 052B seem to have one helo while 052C seems
to have room for two.
is the following correct on imminent PLAN ships:
1 052B
2 052C
4 modernized Sovremeniy
8 Kilos 636?
1 051C (heavy AAW cruiser)
anymore 054 seen ?
more Songs ?
1 093 SSN
1 094 SSBN
ordered & under construction IN ships:
3 P17 (2 building)
3 P15A (1 building)
1 Gorshkov
1 brahmaputra FFG
1 ADS carrier
IN upgrade:
Rajputs to get brahmos
remaning 6 Kilos to get Klub (4 upg is known)
Barak on some ships
By: xanadu - 19th July 2004 at 18:13
Well that surprises me- the small no of Chinese uptodate vessels that is . Thought that the Chinese navy was far bigger. They seriously need a decent no of Ocean going vessels.
By: Hyperwarp - 19th July 2004 at 18:09
Lets do a small numbers game (Just numbers).
Excellent/Good/Decent Vessels (Currently):
*India:
Surface:
1 – Aircraft Carrier (INS Viraat)
3 – Delhi Class
3 – Talwar Class
2 – Brahmaputra class
5 – Rajput Class
3 – Godavari Class
4 – Kora Class
Subs:
11 – Kilo
4 – HDW 209
*China:
Surface:
2 – Sovremenny Class
1 – Type 051B
1 – Type 052B (not sure whether 169 has entered service)
2 – Type 052
4 – Type 051 (Upgraded – 109, 110, 165, 166)
8 – Type 053H3
Subs:
1- Type 092 SSBN
5 -Type 091 SSN
4 – Kilo
5+ – Type 039
One thing. The IN certainly seems to be ahead in the field of ASW. Most of their vessels carry variable depth sonars and some carry advanced Towed Array Sonars. But for the PLAN, it seems only the Type-052 (luhu) carries variable depth sonars. I don’t think any current vessel in the PLAN carry a Towed Array Sonar. This has been a debate at CDF for quite sometime. PLANs lack of good VDS/TAS carrying vessels. Off-course, we don’t know what the new 168/169 carries.
By: desijatt - 17th July 2004 at 17:38
We don’t need a lot but we need them now! But we need the new
PROJECT 28
——————————————————————————–
The Project 28 (P28) ASW corvette will be the Indian Navy’s new anti-submarine warfare (ASW) surface combatant for the 21st century. The program calls for 4 – 6 units of this class. In a news article which appeared in the Times of India, the vessel will be fitted with state-of-the-art armaments, will have the capability to track down enemy submarines and destroy them. The ships will be built at Kolkota’s premier ship-building establishment, GRSE (Garden Reach Shipbuilders & Engineers). Officials at GRSE stated that the order for the ASW corvettes was received in 2003 and design work on the vessel has already begun. They also stated that plate cutting of the first vessel is expected to begin as soon as the designs are approved by the Indian Navy.
This is how IN plans to fight subs and with 10-15 subs by 2015 IN we be awsome.
By: desijatt - 17th July 2004 at 17:36
China right now has the edge but with new ships comin in like they were for china a year back…india is gonna take 1st in about 5 years again.
By: GDL - 17th July 2004 at 13:57
Yep Indian needs submarines and fast , specially of the nuclear kind.
They are coming, and soon by the looks of things.
By: xanadu - 17th July 2004 at 13:31
Yep Indian needs submarines and fast , specially of the nuclear kind.
By: matt - 17th July 2004 at 09:48
In summary the Indian navy is doing a much better job fulfilling the mandates of its mission.
This is on the proviso that the current administration is sympathetic to the needs of the navy and its role in patrolling the Indian ocean, Indian Navy has already given out a small warning of how much it needs to induct ships faster just to compensate for ships that are going out of service or will go out of service, and if this is not done then their will be a reduction in the navy.
Having said that this seems to be more of a problem with submarine force then any of the others.
By: Multirole - 17th July 2004 at 08:46
The Chinese navy’s original role is to defend the coastline and the South China Sea islands. In that role it was never adaquet. It’s new mission is to project power around Taiwan. In that role it is totally inadaquet. The fleet is going through a build up right now, but nothing like the build up the Soviets or Americans had in the Cold War. From the way it looks right now it is unknown if PLAN can ever beef up enough to carry out its mission.
India on the other hand is surrounded by weak navies. It’s primary mission is to shutdown Pakistani ports in the event of war. In this role it has proven effective in the past. In the future India would want projection to the Strait of Malacca, the Persian Gulf, and access to the Red Sea. They are on their way.
In summary the Indian navy is doing a much better job fulfilling the mandates of its mission. They are totally different missions from the Chinese navy. I’m not sure what could be gained from comparing their order of battle as they are not direct competitors.
By: J-7G fan - 17th July 2004 at 08:05
Indian Navy is either best or second best in asia along with Japan. In reality China’s navy cannot cut it with any of her neighbours such as Japan or korea or even Taiwan let alone the US. But the retarded neocons always bash us. Chinese navy ahead of India? in our dreams maybe.
By: gabrujatt - 17th July 2004 at 07:50
i think that currently china might be ahead but say another 5 years india will overtake them
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July 17, 2004 at 5:46 am