Indian Navy news thread

29 K was mandatory with carrier… Gorshkov Lifts are too small for Rafale M anw

This won’t be a problem with new INS VIkrant, as this has deck-edge lifts that in addition are wider. Like Kuznetsov and Liaoning.

The Mig-29K with wings folded has a wingspan of 25.7 ft (7.8m).
The Rafale M, whose wings do not fold, has a wingspan of 35.4 ft (10.8m). This is 9.7 ft (3m). wider.

Question is: is there 1.5m left and right to spare? I think MAYBE with 1 elevator.

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Liaoning was massively updated since.

Relative to the Kuznetsov, the weapons fit hasn’t really improved that much: 3 heavy gun CIWS (versus 6 AK630 + 8 CADS-N-1 Kashtan gun-missile system), fewer (3x 18 HQ-10) SAMs (versus 8×32 Kortik SAM and 24×8 Khinzal SAM), no AShM (versus , 12 P 700 GRanit) equally limited ASW (RBU type ASW rocket launchers)

Sensors esp ASuW and AAW: likely improved.

The deck size and layout unchanged, MAYBE a bit more hangar space.

Nor really substantially greater number of fixed wing aircraft
No smaller aircraft e.g. Mig29K or Su-25 equivalents), smaller number of AEW/ASW helicopters.

Liaoning
24 Shenyang J-15
6 Changhe Z-18
4 Changhe Z-18J
2 Harbin Z-9
Total of 36 fixed wing and rotary wing aircraft.

Kuznetsov

Approx. 36-44 aircraft
Fixed Wing;
12 × Su-33 fighters (current) or
20 × MiG-29K/KUB fighters (future)
4 × Sukhoi Su-25UTG/UBP trainers
Rotary Wing;
4 × Kamov Ka-27LD32 helicopters
18 × Kamov Ka-27PL helicopters
2 × Kamov Ka-27PS helicopters

I think they should’ve never got the 29ks and go for the rafale Ms in the first place.

29 K was mandatory with carrier… Gorshkov Lifts are too small for Rafale M anw

Insistent rumours here (i repeat, rumours) of IN negociating with DA to replace in a first step coastal Sqds of Mig 29 with Rafale and then placing them on IAC1/2

I think they should’ve never got the 29ks and go for the rafale Ms in the first place.

Parhaps it wouldn’t be operational for up to a decade be not for lack of small missile system to defend itself, a limited ability to launch sorties and no defined strategy for how to use the ship in combat. Those issue are either easily rectified (note the installation of Barak 1 and AK630 on Vikramaditya, which are systems dismounted from the Godavari frigate upon retirement) or choice (Vikramaditya also has a limited ability to launch sorties, given similar layout, likewise Liaoning and Kuznetsov). As for strategy, India has has a long time objective of 3 carriers (so 1 available on each coast, with 1 extra under maintenance) > blablabla

Liaoning was massively updated since.

so the other thread said IN doesnt want the Naval Tejas

everyone was saying the IAF had a grudge against HAL and were slowly dragging out the Tejas procurement
but here comes the IN effectively ending it

not too many options for a stobar. just MiG-29K or F-35B?

Insistent rumours here (i repeat, rumours) of IN negociating with DA to replace in a first step coastal Sqds of Mig 29 with Rafale and then placing them on IAC1/2

so the other thread said IN doesnt want the Naval Tejas

everyone was saying the IAF had a grudge against HAL and were slowly dragging out the Tejas procurement
but here comes the IN effectively ending it

not too many options for a stobar. just MiG-29K or F-35B?

Hi,

This is the only photo I found so far regarding the BrahMos VLS at INS Ranvir D54, a Kashin Class Destroyer Project 61ME of the Indian Navy

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/Yoga_onboard_INS_Ranvir.jpg

Does anyone has other photos with the VLS hatches onboard these ships in detail, please?

Thanks.
Regards,
Ayala Botto

Annual dockside sinking by Indian Navy! Hope they find the missing sailors.

INS Betwa tips over during undocking

Navy Spokesperson Capt D K Sharma the 3850-tonne ship, having a length of 126 metres, tipped over while it was being undocked. The mast of the ship hit the dockyard ground, he added.

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/navys-ins-betwa-tips-over-during-undocking-in-mumbai-4411608/

India’s first homemade aircraft carrier falls short of US expectations: Report

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/indias-first-homemade-aircraft-carrier-not-enough-to-fight-china-seas-4404232/

Parhaps it wouldn’t be operational for up to a decade be not for lack of small missile system to defend itself, a limited ability to launch sorties and no defined strategy for how to use the ship in combat. Those issue are either easily rectified (note the installation of Barak 1 and AK630 on Vikramaditya, which are systems dismounted from the Godavari frigate upon retirement) or choice (Vikramaditya also has a limited ability to launch sorties, given similar layout, likewise Liaoning and Kuznetsov). As for strategy, India has has a long time objective of 3 carriers (so 1 available on each coast, with 1 extra under maintenance) > blablabla

A new set of sensors … these have been spotted on INS Kolkata and INS Chennai in images released to the public. Does anyone know what these are ? The black arrays beneath the MF-STAR

Since only oriented towards the bow, and not to sides or rear, I’m not directly inclined to call these sensors.
See http://images.newindianexpress.com/uploads/user/imagelibrary/2016/11/21/original/PTI11_21_2016_000144B.jpg

Earlier pics do not show any sign of mounting points fir these ‘arrays’,
see http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Dy_HjlhZYO8/Vj7l3t8AMqI/AAAAAAAAGgM/p8lQcz1MTGw/s1600/h-754602.jpg

Slabs of radar absorbing material?

That’s not a refit. They removed stuff, but didn’t fit anything. A refit is what it says: a re–fit. She’s been reduced to a hulk, for which the proper term is hulked.

Someone on Wikipedia doesn’t know what the word means.

Even if certain items removed, it could also have involved installation of other things (e.g. if planned for use as floating accommodations, instruction)?

Anyway, now there is insight into what was done while in dock last time around.

Wishing All our Service Personal and their Families Greeting on Navy Day.

शं नो वरुणः

After Sales

RAC-MiG plans to set up a service centre in India for MiG-29K soon

A FORCE Report [http://forceindia.net/AfterSales.aspx]

Induction of MiG-29K and its successful integration with the aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya has enhanced Indian Navy’s combat power and offensive capability. MiG-29K aircraft has been equipped with high-end avionics completed with anti-aircraft beyond visual range missiles, guided anti-ship missile and smart guided bombs and rockets.

While the maintenance of the aircraft for the first few years is part of the original contract, it may be a little too early to talk about after-sales support. However, the Russian manufacturer RAC-MiG has already started making plans for the future support of the squadron. To facilitate this after-sales support, RAC-MiG (part of the Russia’s United Aircraft Corporation) is planning to open a repair and maintenance centre in India itself. This is very much in line with India’s efforts to develop indigenous aircraft industry with the support of the global manufacturers.

Speaking with FORCE at a meeting earlier this year, the general director of RAC-MIG, Sergey Korotkov said, “Since India is the first customer of MiG-29K we are planning to setting up a service centre in India”. He indicated that there was enough time for this as the MiG-29K are new and have three years of serviceability contract with the original equipment manufacturer (OEM). “Indian pilots are doing good flight hours. The Russian warranty team is looking after the MiG-29K onboard INS Vikramaditya. Once we open the service centre in India, there will be a separate customised contract to look after them,” he said.

Fortunately, there have been several attempts to ease out the bureaucratic delays that emerge during the contract signing of the spares and other equipment. The Russian federal government has already given permission to four OEMs (excluding Rosoboronexport, but including UAC) to do direct dealing for repairs, maintenance and spares with India. The nominated Russian OEMs can now both deal directly with India and also with other Russian smaller OEMs who as sub-contractors made the relevant spares.

Going beyond the maintenance and support, RAC-MiG is also looking at future sales of its aircraft. In July 2016, Rosoboronexport (part of the Rostec State Corporation) and the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) signed a programme to aggressively promote Russian military aircraft in the export market for the period 2016-2019. The document was signed by Rosoboronexport director general Anatoly Isaykin and UAC president Yury Slyusar.

Indian Navy rejects Pakistan claim of pushing back its submarine, calls allegations ‘baseless’

http://www.financialexpress.com/india-news/indian-navy-rejects-pakistan-claim-of-pushing-back-its-submarine-calls-it-baseless/462257/

So India’s 2 main rivals China and Pakistan were conducting joint naval exercises within Indian area or interest and Indian Navy chief says “there was no Indian submarine deployed in the area ” If true its even more concerning than just getting caught!

Who else in the region other than India operates U209s upgraded with photonic masts?

India’s first homemade aircraft carrier falls short of US expectations: Report

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/indias-first-homemade-aircraft-carrier-not-enough-to-fight-china-seas-4404232/

India’s first locally made aircraft carrier has been found to be non-operational by American naval engineers, according to a report in Wall Street Journal.

The report states that the engineers who inspected the carrier at the port of Kochi in February, expecting it to be battle-ready, said it wouldn’t be operational for up to a decade. They found it having shortcomings like no small missile system to defend itself, a limited ability to launch sorties and no defined strategy for how to use the ship in combat.

India and US have joined hands to counter China’s expanding sway in the Indian ocean.

“China’s navy will be the biggest in the world soon, and they’re definitely eyeing the Indian Ocean with ports planned in Sri Lanka and Bangladesh,” retired Admiral Arun Prakash, the former commander of India’s navy, is quoted as saying in the report.

The inspection formed part of US plans to share aircraft carrier technology with India. In August, both the countries had signed a military agreement sharing logistics. They also plan a joint participation in naval exercises with Japan. Washington has approved proposals by Lockheed Martin and Boeing Co. to make advanced jet fighters in India.

India and US naval agreement has given way to new dynamics to Asia’s geopolitical terrain, with China having diplomatic issues with the joint exercises.

Indian Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar recently reiterated a commitment to indigenous manufacturing, citing concerns that foreign supply of arms and ammunition could be cut off in a time of war. “I think self-dependence is very important,” he said.

China has been speeding up efforts on expanding its military forces. China is strategically investing in ports circling the Indian Ocean in Sri Lanka, Myanmar and Pakistan. It is also building it’s first overseas military outpost in Dijboputi.

India had pledged funding for a new port in Iran last year. It has also added two Indian- built carriers to the Russian one it now operates.

US, however, is showing concerns about India’s military strategy. Experts said there have been severe delays on the part of New Delhi in modernising its carriers, jet fighters and nuclear submarines.

Some serious faults have been found in India’s first homemade carrier, INS Vikrant. Its gearboxes, construction, design and jet launching system has fallen short of expectations. But the US Navy has hopes on India’s second homemade carrier which promises advance technologies.

Indian Navy rejects Pakistan claim of pushing back its submarine, calls allegations ‘baseless’

http://www.financialexpress.com/india-news/indian-navy-rejects-pakistan-claim-of-pushing-back-its-submarine-calls-it-baseless/462257/

Navy’s Chief Admiral Sunil Lamba has today said that Pakistan Navy’s assertion that it saw Indian submarine its waters was “totally bogus”. Addressing media persons, he said that there was no Indian submarine deployed in the area as claimed by Pakistan and that repelling submarine of any nation is not an easy task.

He further said that submarines are deployed by the Indian Navy where the operational necessity is needed. Stressing that the Navy will continue to deploy its submarines as and when required. the Navy chief said that the Navy has reviewed deployment philosophy to counter any menace . Admiral Sunil Lamba further said that Navy is aware of its role to shape up a positive maritime environment in the Indian Ocean.

The Navy chief also spoke on the South China Sea dispute and observed that like all other Maritime boundary issues, South China Sea matter should also be resolved according to international maritime laws.

Last Thursday, Pakistan had termed an alleged effort by an Indian submarine to enter into its territorial waters as “unusual.” It also warned of retaliation if such effort was made. Speaking on the sidelines of the 9th International Defence Exhibition, Pakistan naval chief Admiral Muhammad Zakaullah had said that If India does something like this again, Pakistan Navy will respond to protect its sovereignty.

Pakistan had also claimed that the Indian submarine was pushed back after being detected near its waters, which India dismissed as “blatant lies”, saying that its Navy did does not have any underwater movement as claimed by the neighbouring country.

Navy chief Sunil Lanba says Tejas LCA not up to mark, search on for another fighter jet

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/55747038.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

“The MiG-29K will operate from the Vikrant (first Indian built aircraft carrier). But we also need an alternate aircraft now. We are looking for it, as the LCA is not up to the mark yet. In the present form, the LCA cannot take off with its full weapon load,” said the Navy chief, adding that within the next five years a new fighter aircraft will be needed for carrier operations.

“There has been no intrusion by Chinese vessels in Indian territorial waters in Andaman and Nicobar Islands. But we have our eyes on them (Chinese Navy),” said Lanba.

Meanwhile, the Navy chief said the force is planning to acquire autonomous sub-surface assets and ship-based Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs).

On the Scorpene submarine leak, Lanba said India will setup a joint group with France. “We will see if have to make changes on the platforms. But the leaked data dates to the pre-2010 period. It does not have details on the armament. There is no critical leak,” he said, adding additional submarines are also being looked at.

A new set of sensors … these have been spotted on INS Kolkata and INS Chennai in images released to the public. Does anyone know what these are ? The black arrays beneath the MF-STAR