Info on RAF pilot lost in France?

Hi Janine

I’d love to see any photos or paperwork you have. I’ve tried to email via this forum but not sure if those messages are reaching you. You can email via craigalansmith at hotmail dot com.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Craig

Hello Janine

hello! Was so lovely to read this. Richard Alexander Curle was grandfather!! My Dad has just passed away, so my sister and I were looking through some of the things that my Nana had kept. Amongst some were a letter from one of the gentlemans fiancee (who was on that flight). We have copes if the original telegram message informing my Nana that my Granddad was missing,and another saying he was missing presumed dead. If there is anything I can help with, I will do all I can.

Proud granddaughter, Janine

Hi Janine. It was lovely to read your thread, and a great joy to find another person with fond attachment to the brave crew of ED559. My uncle, Harry Riding was wireless operator on that flight and flew with your Grandad many times. My family has never forgotten Harry, and his fellow crewmembers. We were raised knowing and loving Harry, even though we never met him. My mother has many stories to tell, and one of her favorites is the story of Harry meeting your Nana. She had a cocker spaniel dog almost identical to his “Cherry” at home in Australia.

My family, especially my mother and I, are all thrilled to have made contact with Craig Smith and we greatly admire his work on the ED559 website. Losing a loved one in this way was a terrible experience for my mother’s family, and looking back over the correspondence of that time shows what a terribly anxious and sad time it must have been. I can assure you that when we think and talk of Harry, we think of the entire crew and their families, and you (and your Nana) might like to know that my mother’s family gained much consolation and comfort when they learned that Richard was found and was given an honorable burial.

Give my family’s kindest regards to your family, I assure you we feel strongly connected to you all.

Best wishes, Duncan

Thanks Moggy, much obliged.

Edit: Here he is (found on Photobucket),

Google’s great when you know what you’re looking for!

Mark

My handsome Grandfather!!

hello! Was so lovely to read this. Richard Alexander Curle was grandfather!! My Dad has just passed away, so my sister and I were looking through some of the things that my Nana had kept. Amongst some were a letter from one of the gentlemans fiancee (who was on that flight). We have copes if the original telegram message informing my Nana that my Granddad was missing,and another saying he was missing presumed dead. If there is anything I can help with, I will do all I can.

Proud granddaughter, Janine

I’ve created the starter site www.ed559.co.uk where I’ve collated some of the information I have to date. I’m still to visit RAF Hendon and the National Archives (to see if I can see the MRES record), and am also awaiting the copying of files from Australia.

It’s a good start and if you have some time please pop along and have a look.

Cheers

I have a few more questions to ask fellow forum members. Apologies in advance if these seem somewhat long winded but it’s all relatively new to me.

3. Delivery: On a gardening op such as ED559 was on I’m guessing that, depending on the number carried, they would have a target area/plan. Would I be correct in assuming they would drop them singularly every so often (to avoid all being swept later)?
4. Crash: on the balance of probability it is likely that ED559 came down in the sea. The aircraft was relatively new (delivered the month before) but I’m interested in opinions and thoughts about what could have caused the loss. I appreciate it is conjecture and we’ll probably never know but I’m very interested in possible reasons (engine failure, ordnance problem, enemy action (though so far I’ve found no info to back this up), etc).

I’ve come across the March 4/5 1943 Night Raids Report which gives some interesting information:

Minelaying: …one aircraft did not return from the Gironde Estuary.

Enemy Defences: …Light flak and searchlights were active on both banks of the Gironde Estuary.

Casualties: …There is no evidence to indicate where or how the missing Lancaster came to grief.

The Gironde Estuary is right where the island of Oleron, where Richard is buried. I suppose that based on the above evidence there is a chance that ED559 was downed by flak. Now I wonder where you go to check German flak reports…?

I have a few more questions to ask fellow forum members. Apologies in advance if these seem somewhat long winded but it’s all relatively new to me.

1. Ordnance carried: from research there were various sea-mines (Mks I to IV being available in March 1943) that could be released from a Lancaster. Is there any way to determine what ED559 was carrying on this sortie and how many?

I downloaded the 100 Squadron record of events for March 1943 and it says that eight Lancaster IIIs took off and that four (D (Richard Curle’s aircraft), J, S and U) were carrying five 1,500 lb. mines. Oddly, it says the four other Lancs were carrying just four mines (I wonder why the difference). Looking at the reports for other aircraft, the average height from which the mines were dropped is ~800 feet (a total of 22 mines being successfully dropped during the mission). There is no mention of the actual target area in the report.

I have a few more questions to ask fellow forum members. Apologies in advance if these seem somewhat long winded but it’s all relatively new to me.

1. Ordnance carried: from research there were various sea-mines (Mks I to IV being available in March 1943) that could be released from a Lancaster. Is there any way to determine what ED559 was carrying on this sortie and how many?
2. Safety: was dropping sea mines a relatively straight forward op? On average at what height would they be released (I’ve read that they could be deployed from very low heights right up to 15,000 feet).
3. Delivery: On a gardening op such as ED559 was on I’m guessing that, depending on the number carried, they would have a target area/plan. Would I be correct in assuming they would drop them singularly every so often (to avoid all being swept later)?
4. Crash: on the balance of probability it is likely that ED559 came down in the sea. The aircraft was relatively new (delivered the month before) but I’m interested in opinions and thoughts about what could have caused the loss. I appreciate it is conjecture and we’ll probably never know but I’m very interested in possible reasons (engine failure, ordnance problem, enemy action (though so far I’ve found no info to back this up), etc).
5. Name: I’ve seen a book entry that denotes ED559 as D-Dog on this operation. Would the aircraft have has a separate name (akin to “Phantom of the Ruhr”) and if so, does anyone know it?

I’m sure I’ll have further questions as I research and hope members don’t mind me asking them in the future.

Is passing I found this photo of another member of the crew.

Should Duncan Campbell still be visiting this forum, I would be extremely interested to see a picture of his uncle, Harry Riding.

Thank you for your kind offer of a photograph – I’d love to see more photos of the grave and cemetery. Alas, we have not made the trip as my father’s health has not been good enough of late. I am going to Normandy this year but it’s too far to drive to La Rochelle. So, I’ll have to make a special trip to see Richard’s grave and pay my respects.

I found this great site that included a photo.

Many, many thanks for that, and the quick response. Is the Loss Card available to view online? If not, how does one go abut accessing it?

My father is thankfully still with us and we’ve been planning for a few years to get down to see Richard’s grave. We may add it to our semi-regular visit to Normandy this year

Londonclanger, did you and your father visit the grave? It’s quite a distance from Normandy to the Charente Maritime coast. Anyhow, I assume that the grave is in the town cemetery of le Château d’Oléron, details of which can be found at http://www.lechateaudoleron.fr/haut/pratique/deuil.html. If you haven’t managed a visit but would like a photograph of the grave, let me know and I’ll endeavour to oblige when next I visit Isle d’Oléron. I suspect that it’s somewhat closer to me than it is to you!

Loss Card for ED559 Has

Pilot: Curle
Navigator: Crapp
Flight Enginner: Hart
Bomb Aimer Challoner
Wireless Operator: Riding
Mid-Upper Gunner: Gooch
Rear Gunner: Durdin

Hi there

I’m doing further research into ED559 (building a site about the loss) and I’m hoping someone can assist me in determining the crew roles of the men on this flight.

So far, I’ve got this, but any help in fine tuning would be very much appreciated.

Position Location
Pilot (Curle) Seated on the left hand side of the cockpit.
Flight Engineer (?) Seated next to the pilot on a folding seat
Navigator (Hart?) Seated at a table facing to the port (left) of the aircraft and directly behind the pilot and flight engineer
Bomb Aimer (Challoner) Seated when operating the front gun turret, but positioned in a laying position when directing the pilot on to the aiming point prior to releasing the bomb load
Wireless Operator (Crapp / Riding) Seated facing forward and directly beside the navigator
Mid-Upper Gunner (Crapp / Riding / Gooch / Durdin) Seated in the mid upper turret
Rear Gunner (Crapp / Riding / Gooch / Durdin) “Tail End Charlie” seated in the rear turret.

Hi all – newbie here – I was pointed to this thread from another forum where I’m a regular.

I have a significant interest in 100, and was once upon a time the Historian for the 100 Squadron Association before I had to stand down due to other commitments.

I’ve done a bit of work on this loss myself, although as you’ve all already seen, there isn’t a huge amount of information available as to ED559’s loss – almost without a doubt she came down in the sea.

There is a discrepancy between the NAA report which states Richard Curle’s body as having been recovered from the sea on the 3rd of April, whilst the Bomber Command Loss Card (which has woefully little information on it) states it was recovered significantly earlier, on the 7th of March. I do not know which date is correct, although I favour the one on the Loss Card.

The crew arrived (as a complete crew) on 100 Sqn on the 26th of January 1943 from 1656 HCU.

One small error in the information above (and one that has been perpetuated for years!!) is the aircraft code letters. She was wearing “JA-D” when she was lost, not “HW-D”.

Hope that adds a little something, if anyone wants any more, feel free to ask or drop a PM to me and I’ll do my best to oblige 🙂

I am sure I speak for all of us when I say how glad we all are when something we have done shows relatives that the sacrifices of their kin are not forgotten outside their own group.

And welcome to both of you. Feel free to stick around

Moggy

Lancaster ED559 of 100 Squadron

Hello. I have been reading your forum with great interest. Mark’s enquiry about Richard Curle has great personal interest to me and my family. My uncle, FO Harry Riding was a crewmember on ED559 on 4 March 1943. My mother and I were discussing the upcoming 69th anniversary of his loss and I know her feelings and memories of that time are still quite strong. My family has been raised knowing and loving Harry even though we never met him. My own children have always marched with pride on Anzac Day wearing Harry’s service medals.

Thank you to Mark, Moggie, Resmoroh and other forum members for their interest and research.

Best wishes to you all, and to any family members of that brave crew.

Duncan
NSW, Australia

Some more detail re – Richard Curle

Hello. Some additional background. I did some research on Richard Curle a few years ago whilst aiding my father write his memoirs. The picture added here belongs to my father – I sent it on to a member of a different forum that helped me research Richard’s service record.

Richard lived opposite my father in Gateshead and though 10 years older then my father, he fondly remembers Richard and his wife (Richard was an engineer and had a lovely two-seater roadster my father recalls). My father was incredibly saddened (to put it mildly) upon learning of Richard’s death in 1943 and though in a reserved occupation at the time (he worked making steam winches) tried to enlist in the RAF (to get even with the Germans…). Unfortunately, my father wore glasses and the RAF turned him down. However, he enlisted in the Royal Navy and became a signalman and served on Atlantic convoys, on a navigation ML taking the troops into Gold Beach during D-Day and in the Med and Adriatic.

My father is thankfully still with us and we’ve been planning for a few years to get down to see Richard’s grave. We may add it to our semi-regular visit to Normandy this year.

I hope this adds some extra detail beyond that available.

From an Australian source.

Aircraft Type: Lancaster
Serial number: ED 599
Radio call sign: HW – S
Unit: 100 Sqn RAF

Summary:
Lancaster ED 599 of 100 Sqn RAF took off at 1838 hours from RAF Station Grimsby, Lincolnshire, on 4 March 1943, being one of four Squadron aircraft to carry out an operational sweep over Western France, from Cherbourg to Bordeaux and return. Two of the aircraft returned safely, one crashed and nothing further was heard of ED 599.

Crew:
RAF Flt Lt Curle, R A, Captain (Pilot)
RAF PO Challoner, C S (Air Bomber)
RAF Sgt Hart, D A (Observer)
RAAF 411113 FO Crapp, E C (Wireless Operator/Air Gunner)
RAAF 403699 FO Riding, H (Wireless Operator/Air Gunner)
RAAF 416149 Sgt Durdin, G W (Air Gunner)
RAF Sgt Gooch, D L (Air Gunner)

A 1948 report stated that Flt Lt Curle’s body was recovered from the sea near St Nicholas on 3 April 1943 and buried at Chateau Cemetery, Isle d’Oleron. St Nicholas is on the north-west coast of France approx 30 miles North West of La Rochelle.
Ile d’Oleron is located off the French coast about 35 miles south east of St Nicholas. No trace of the aircraft was found which it was assumed crashed in the sea, with the remaining crew members lost at sea.

Just to tidy-up a few loose ends on this one.
R A Curle Commissioned 30 Jan 42 from Sgt (so he was already a Sgt Pilot when Commissioned as a Plt Off in the RAFVR GD Branch).
Promoted from Plt Off to Fg Off on 1 Oct 42.
At some stage he was Promoted Acting/Flt Lt (these ‘Acting’ ranks are not normally Gazetted) which means he wore the ‘2 rings’ of a Flt Lt but was probably only being paid as a Fg Off when he was KIA (this was quite normal).
The photograph was probably taken on the occasion of his Commissioning. The brass VT collar tabs ceased to be worn at some time in 1943 (best Malcolm on Rafweb can come up with – tks Malcolm!).
HTH
Resmoroh

You can date that photograph. He’s still wearing the brass ‘VR’ collar tabs. He Enlisted at Padgate (nr Blackpool) between Sep 1939 and Apr 1941 (probably nearer the first). His Enlisted number was 1029107. On 30 Jan 42 he was Commissioned – and got a new Number (121280).
HTH
Resmoroh

It’s good to see him.

It appears he was the only member of the crew whose body was recovered. The rest have no known grave and are commemorated on the Runnymede memorial.

Is anybody going to edit the Wiki?

Moggy