Info Request on B17 Roundtrip Jack

Dan – many thanks for posting that pic – it’s quite a sight!

And Moggy, whilst I take your point, the issue is of course something along the lines of “it’s dangerous enough out there without us deliberately stacking the odds against ourselves”.

On that point … I’m struggling to remember quite what it was I read/saw etc. (so with a nod to Steve Patterson, I’ll say “I think that I remember”) but I have this recollection that it took a month after D-Day before US losses exceeded the losses incurred during the build-up … training, accidents, SNAFUs etc. I wonder if that’s true or just journalistic licence?

I do know for sure that the second most costly (fatalities) RAF Bomber Command “target” was Training (the top 6 in order being Berlin, Training, Minelaying, Essen, Hamburg, Cologne)

And that was the only operational use as by then higher authority had got wind of the installation and immediately condemned it as unsafe and it was removed.

Wouldn’t have wanted the lads doing anything unsafe would we? Like thirty missions over Germany :rolleyes:

For crying out loud!

Moggy

Have scanner will travel. The above mentioned page 87 of the Mighty Eighth War Diary showing the 20mm installation.

Dan

Yak 11 fan – did you know RoundTrip Jack was a rather famous beastie?

I got Roger Freeman’s “Mighty Eighth War Diary” out of the library to check a few facts on another matter (Blue Streak – now there’s a story) and there on page 87 is a photo of Roundtrip Jack – with a 20mm cannon in her nose!

Apparently she (a B-17F) had a 20mm cannon unofficially installed by the 385BG. The weapon was obtained in August 1943 “from British sources” and CWO Nugent Thompson devised the installation – he had to fabricate various parts and strengthen nose gun supports etc.

It was tested on 13 August and they found that the recoil kick vibrated the cockpit instruments! RTJ then took part in a mission to Vitry en Artois on 15 August but no fighters were encountered. And that was the only operational use as by then higher authority had got wind of the installation and immediately condemned it as unsafe and it was removed.

Very good point Gnome, one which I will take on board next time.

Yak 11 Fan – I know you’re very much a part of this forum, so please excuse me if I test your sanguine demeanor with this comment 😉

I find myself unable to resist saying that Martin’s observation that it took him 1/2 a second on Google to get this information is something I’ve noted all too often here. J Boyle asked questions about RAF/USAAF relative losses – I spent a couple of minutes googling and there it all is. Stormbird 262 wanted to know about a certain NZ Mosquito, point something of a second on Google and I had his answer.

Why do I bother? Because I’m interested – I wouldn’t be here if I wasn’t. Martin too I suspect.

But please people, may I respectfully suggest a moment’s googling before asking questions. Then please post the interesting things you find and the difficult unanswered questions, like – does anyone have a photo or other record of the unusual accident Round Trip Jack suffered?

Sorry if I’ve offended anyone – but Google really is a remarkable tool and we can all make good use of it.

.5 seconds google

http://members.lycos.co.uk/guyries/list_b17.php

Martin