INS Viraat visit to Southeast Asia

I don’t think it carries any other missiles.

Correct, she does have a couple of 40mm guns and a couple of AK 230 guns. Barak makes a good addition.

I don’t think it carries any other missiles.

sea eagles on the harriers.

Sorry.. I mean what missiles Viraat carries herself.. not on aircraft or Helicopters..

sea eagles on the harriers and sea kings.

sea eagles on the harriers.

Apart from Barak what are the other missiles Viraat carries…

we have heard this for a decade with no real action. with Gorshkov and ADS-1 solidly in the bag and funded, I dont see why they will bother with little old Invi which cannot mount STOBAR Mig29K.

3 and even 4 carriers will be there eventually, but not now.

of topic but carrier related

I read somewhere that HMS Invincible would be sold of by 2006, and that the Indian Navy is very intrested

its goes with the navies 3 carrier fantasy

im trying to find the link, will post :diablo:

There are 3 versions of 3S14 launcher: the original one, which is the one You are referring to – just metal beams :p, then there is 3S14K, which is the same, only boxed like a container, so it can be retrofitted into ships which were not purpose-built for this launcher, it’s heavier of course. The third version is 3S14P which I described.
Air launched Yakhont is 6,1m long, ship launched is 8m (8,9m with container). I can’t see any booster on air-launched version, anyway, whhy should it need one?

for launch from aircrafts like tu-144 and i doubt flanker can go supersonic with 3 yakhonts.

http://www.brahmos.com/missile_tech.html
” The air-launched version has a smaller booster and additional tail fins for stability during launch.”

sigh if you want to believe what you want to believe sure go ahead no point in this discussion since its Off topic. But data suggests even tarantul can carry 8-12 yakhont there plenty of models and info to prove that.

“The universal missile weights only 3 tons, and it can be placed in all kinds of ships or launches of Russian or foreign make. Its guidance system can be used with various types of carriers. If installed on a ship being modernized, three containers with Yakhont missiles can replace a single launching position of an “old” cruise missile. For instance, when modernizing a boat of the 1241 Tarantul project, which was sold well to dozens of countries in the Soviet years, its four P-15 Termit missiles may be replaced with 12 Yakhont anti-ship cruise missiles.”

could be orginally they were have to just some metal beams holding those canisters guess specs changed?
Doesnt air launched version also have a small booster?

I’m sorry if you take it that way but, Jon, I was never arguing with you! So don’t give me that “off topic” stuff.

I know russian FACs can take Yakhont, I’ve seen images of the experimental Nanuchka ship modification, I’ve seen models of Tarantul with Brahmos. That was never the point. But just because it can be done on those shis doesn’t automatically mean it can be done the same way on Kashin class ships. So, I just have questions as to what rearming a ship that way does from the point of view of stability. That depends on a) the available space, b) the weight parked in that space as well as c) the location of that space (notably, how high up from the waterline). Is there a problem with having questions about something?

I can’t see any booster on air-launched version, anyway, whhy should it need one?

Correct, but the airlaunched version does have some sort of faring over the nose of the missile where its air intake is, which may explain the difference between 6.1 and 6.9 meters.

could be orginally they were have to just some metal beams holding those canisters guess specs changed?
Doesnt air launched version also have a small booster?

There are 3 versions of 3S14 launcher: the original one, which is the one You are referring to – just metal beams :p, then there is 3S14K, which is the same, only boxed like a container, so it can be retrofitted into ships which were not purpose-built for this launcher, it’s heavier of course. The third version is 3S14P which I described.
Air launched Yakhont is 6,1m long, ship launched is 8m (8,9m with container). I can’t see any booster on air-launched version, anyway, whhy should it need one?

It’s not an ARGUMENT! Not everything has to be ARGUMENT. Geeezzzzz!!!
I was just trying to make sense of the discrepancies in the data you and I brought to the table from our own sources.

No, I don’t quite understand what you mean. Perhaps you can enlighten me. I know what density is in materials so I can follow you in broad lines as regards equipment. But it remains that if Styx and Yakhont/Brahmos missile weight about the same and but you carry multiple Yakhont/Brahmos missiles in the space originally taken up by a single Styx, then that means a significant increase in weight carried in that space. Now, to me, that sounds like the same thing that you might be referring to as (increased) density.

By the way, just because 2 launch racks, each able to carry 6 Yakhont missiles, are installed on a Nanuchka for trial purposes does not necessarily mean that that (or any other) Nanuchka will actually be loaded up with 12 such missiles. I’ve seen images of that ship with the racks and carrying a single missile container in it but not any with both racks fully loaded up. Maybe you have, in which case I would be interested in an url to visit.

sigh if you want to believe what you want to believe sure go ahead no point in this discussion since its Off topic. But data suggests even tarantul can carry 8-12 yakhont there plenty of models and info to prove that.

“The universal missile weights only 3 tons, and it can be placed in all kinds of ships or launches of Russian or foreign make. Its guidance system can be used with various types of carriers. If installed on a ship being modernized, three containers with Yakhont missiles can replace a single launching position of an “old” cruise missile. For instance, when modernizing a boat of the 1241 Tarantul project, which was sold well to dozens of countries in the Soviet years, its four P-15 Termit missiles may be replaced with 12 Yakhont anti-ship cruise missiles.”

Although it’s intended for Klub missile family, the dimensions alow to fit in Brahmos as well. I wonder, may be that’s the launcher installed on Rajput?
JonS: You are absolutely right abot the booster. Surface-launched version of course needs a booster stage, so the length will be 8,9m.

could be orginally they were have to just some metal beams holding those canisters guess specs changed?
Doesnt air launched version also have a small booster?

huh? how can you disregard the booster dont get your argument here.

hmm as i said before you dont quite seem understand what i mean, material density plays a major role in bouyancy also in top weight issues. Also as i said how else can you explain the no of yakhont those vessels can carry as opposed to moskit.

It’s not an ARGUMENT! Not everything has to be ARGUMENT. Geeezzzzz!!!
I was just trying to make sense of the discrepancies in the data you and I brought to the table from our own sources.

No, I don’t quite understand what you mean. Perhaps you can enlighten me. I know what density is in materials so I can follow you in broad lines as regards equipment. But it remains that if Styx and Yakhont/Brahmos missile weight about the same and but you carry multiple Yakhont/Brahmos missiles in the space originally taken up by a single Styx, then that means a significant increase in weight carried in that space. Now, to me, that sounds like the same thing that you might be referring to as (increased) density.

By the way, just because 2 launch racks, each able to carry 6 Yakhont missiles, are installed on a Nanuchka for trial purposes does not necessarily mean that that (or any other) Nanuchka will actually be loaded up with 12 such missiles. I’ve seen images of that ship with the racks and carrying a single missile container in it but not any with both racks fully loaded up. Maybe you have, in which case I would be interested in an url to visit.

At the naval show in St.Peterburg 3S14PE launcher was announced. It’s an inclined two-box launcher (modification of VLS 3S14E for) with following dimensions: length-9,52m, height-4,6m, width-2,6m. Although it’s intended for Klub missile family, the dimensions alow to fit in Brahmos as well. I wonder, may be that’s the launcher installed on Rajput?
JonS: You are absolutely right abot the booster. Surface-launched version of course needs a booster stage, so the length will be 8,9m.

unch-container dimensions are 8.9 meters length and 0.7 meters diameter Maybe it is 8,7m WITH booster stage an and 6,9m for just the missile?

huh? how can you disregard the booster dont get your argument here.

hmm as i said before you dont quite seem understand what i mean, material density plays a major role in bouyancy also in top weight issues. Also as i said how else can you explain the no of yakhont those vessels can carry as opposed to moskit.

Wanshan
first of all you got size wrong its around 8.7 meters for brahmos not 6.9.

I dont think for starters you dont seem to understanding the concept of density or what i am saying. Its not the weight that matters its weight relative to its size and distribution of that weight, there is more to it but i will keep it simple besides i am not civil engineer either. Also there is other major factors such as inital thrust from the booster and so on which also come to play. Thats why tarantul or nanchuka or most other vessel cant carry or needs to modified to carry just 4 moskit were as they can easily carry 8-12 yakhonts even thou weight difference is only 1 ton. Anyway IN’s tarantul model show it carrying only 8 brahmos were as russian models show it carry 12, could be difference in tastes.

As for rajput not to sure another distant image actually doesnt show 3rd launcher.

image 1
image 2 no 3rd launcher-(alert5)

Launch-container dimensions are 8.9 meters length and 0.7 meters diameter Maybe it is 8,7m WITH booster stage an and 6,9m for just the missile?

As for the he weight difference between 4 Moskits and 12 Yakhont
Yakhont launch weight is 3,000 kg. Its 3,900 kg with launch-container. So, 2 missiles alone are 36 tons. In August 2001 Raduga displayed a lightened 3M-80E1, with weight reduced from 4150kg to 3970kg. So 4 moskits are at least 15,9 – 16,6 tons. That’s a difference of 20 tons just in terms of the missiles!

The weight matters because of its possible effect on ship stability, esp. if a small hull or if the missiles are located relatively high up on ship (topweigth/center of gravity issues). Density doesn’t have anything to do with that, I think.

Wanshan
first of all you got size wrong its around 8.7 meters for brahmos not 6.9.

han Depending on version, 1x Styx weighs between 2300 and 2600kg without booster and without launch container. By comparison, the 6.9-meter PJ-10 cruise missile weighs three tons. I

I dont think for starters you dont seem to understanding the concept of density or what i am saying. Its not the weight that matters its weight relative to its size and distribution of that weight, there is more to it but i will keep it simple besides i am not civil engineer either. Also there is other major factors such as inital thrust from the booster and so on which also come to play. Thats why tarantul or nanchuka or most other vessel cant carry or needs to modified to carry just 4 moskit were as they can easily carry 8-12 yakhonts even thou weight difference is only 1 ton. Anyway IN’s tarantul model show it carrying only 8 brahmos were as russian models show it carry 12, could be difference in tastes.

As for rajput not to sure another distant image actually doesnt show 3rd launcher.

image 1
image 2 no 3rd launcher-(alert5)

Depending on version, 1x Styx weighs between 2300 and 2600kg without booster and without launch container. By comparison, the 6.9-meter PJ-10 cruise missile weighs three tons. If it is similar to Yakhont/Oniks, it should weighs 3900 kg in its launch container. So, factoring in the wiehgts of booster and launch container, 1x Styx is about the same weight as 1x Brahmos. Which mean that if you replace 1x Styx with 2x Brahmos, you are doubling the weight. Replace 2x 2-Pack Styx on a Nanuchka with a 2x 6-pack of Brahmos, and you are tripling the weight. While that may work on a Nanuchka hull, it need not work on a Kashin hull (different hulls > different weight distributions and margins). Also, apart from weight issue, I dont think there is room enough to fit a 6-pack brahmos fit in the space available for a single Styx on the Rajput class. I think they would get up to 8 (4×2) brahmos instead of the current 4×1 Styx. It could also be that they will get 4 Brahmos and retain 2 Styx. Is it known whether Rajput has just 2 Brahmos installed (i.e. port side only) or does it have 4 installed (a pair on both port and starboard)?

If they do, great. However, thus far, I’ve seen only images of 1 ship so equiped. As Barak/Star on Ranvir and Ranvijay: yes, that’s what I said was posted on Bharat Rakshak (which says “Ranvir and/or Ranvijay”)

Its hard to tell. However, considering missile weight and the fact that in previous images (which by the way had round canisters, not quare ones) Rajput mounted a pair of Brahmos to port, I still think its just a pair.

respective to its size its not that heavy compared to styx, i.e russian navy’s nanchuka is fitted with 12 Onyks they intend to fit 12 on other vessels with 4 termit missiles.