Intriguing Spitfire Image – But Where Taken?

Leonard George Gooch far right, Works Manager of Supermarine from late 1940. Standing next to him is Sir James Bird, Managing Director who returned out of semi-retirement to lead Supermarine through the war years. Yes, they do look a bit similar but you can spot the difference here. They are pictured with Queen Mary visiting the town of Trowbridge, Wiltshire, where Supermarine had a cluster of dispersal workshops making Spitfires that were flown out of (still in partial use) RAF Keevil.

https://hampshirearchivesandlocalstudies.wordpress.com/2018/09/14/out-of-the-shadows-a-spitfire-story/ takes you to an account by Zoe Viney, a member of Len Gooch’s family that has the original picture in it.

In Denis Le P Webb’s book, Never a Dull Moment, p165 -166 he describes taking a party of Senior American Aircraft Executives around some of Supermarine’s dispersed facilities in mid 1941 (before Pearl Harbour) and then lunching them at The Polygon Hotel.

“The two sitting either side of me seemed genuinely astonished at what we had managed to produce after the raid. (The two main factories had both been put out of action in late September, 1940.)

“Gee – no! Give us a large factory where we can feed in raw materials at one end and push the finished product out the other, then yes – we can do it – but Jesus – how in Hell do you organise a set up like this?” I had some difficulty in explaining this myself!!”

Webb says how he told the visitors that they had essentially maintained the structure of the original factories but instead of a messenger going across the shop floor they now had “motorcycle and sidecar messengers” doing it and lorries were now going from site to site with parts instead of hand trolleys within the factory.

“But didn’t you all get around a table and plan this thing?”

“I could only reply, “Christ no! There wasn’t time!”

This looks like Len Gooch

Bird in 1946, taken from the National Portrait Gallery website.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]260148[/ATTACH]

That clinches, not Bird then.
Thanks.

I think you’re spot on, Mark. In the comparison between two photos, the “942” in the serial seems to match. Behind the men, I see the curve of the bottom of the “9”, the “4”, and certainly what can only be a “2”.

The ears in M12’s pic are wrong for Bird too

Seafire –

(I want to say X4492, but going on memory)

The small portion of the serial visible does not fit too well with X4492.

I favour X4942, regarded as the prototype Mk VI. Supermarine fitted a pressure cabin in 1941 and you can see that the door area is a different tone in the image.

Note short engine and four blade pop.

Mark

Thanks for the confirmation. Photo comes from Roger Dickson’s son in the USA who is a bit hazy on the early career of his father but says this one is dated 1941. Dickson divorced and emigrated to to the USA after the war where he remarried, so the family there lack detailed knowledge of his UK activities.

Schneiderman, I do believe you are correct that your photo depicts the first pressurised prototype (I want to say X4492, but going on memory). 1941 would be plausible. It’s a great photo!

Schneiderman, Thanks for the names. I figured Mac Laddon wasn’t the mystery man, but this facial comparison game is kind of fun so I decided to post the last one. It really can be amazing how so many people can look alike, or look similar, even when the odds of a match are low, or zero.

Matt, I doubt that he would be in that photo, it is all Supermarine people I am told. Guy with the beard is Roger Dickson, designer, and to his right is (I think) Arthur Shirval, the head of the special projects team. Dated 1941, but I cannot confirm/deny that

The last of my facial comparisons. No idea if Mac Laddon was in the photo Schneiderman posted (#25 in this thread), but one man does look familiar. I’ve cropped the photo to use for the comparisons with the two Mac Laddon images. From left to right: Laddon, unknown, Laddon.

Methinks Matt Poole is really Sherlock Holmes……

But, unlike Sherlock — and Mac Laddon, too –, I don’t smoke a pipe.

One of the other faces reminds me of Isaac “Mac” Laddon, Chief Engineer/Designer for Consolidated Aircraft. Again, just for fun, and with no claim being made, here is the lineup, left to right: Mac Laddon-Mac Laddon-mystery face.

Bingo.

We have a winner :very_drunk:

Top sleuthing.

Methinks Matt Poole is really Sherlock Holmes……

Now that looks plausible.

I think you could be onto something there Matt

One of the other faces reminds me of Isaac “Mac” Laddon, Chief Engineer/Designer for Consolidated Aircraft. Again, just for fun, and with no claim being made, here is the lineup, left to right: Mac Laddon-Mac Laddon-mystery face.

Bird in 1946, taken from the National Portrait Gallery website.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]260148[/ATTACH]

Flying_Pencil, yours is another worthy guess, though I’m holding off on agreeing. Just for the fun of it, here is a closeup of this gentleman, on the right, compared with two known photos of Sir James Bird.

Consider the source of light can greatly effect how a person looks, and the Spit pic the light is slightly above the camera.
The other images the light is not the same angle.

Sir Bird is also 60 years old, expect some facial changes.
…which is makes difficult because the years the other images taken is not stated.

In addition the other 2 images look to be a few generations old, probably taken off news papers and magazines rather than significantly higher quality photo medium.

I also note how intently he is looking at something inside the cockpit.

Not conclusive, but possibility.

Bird was sidelined when Supermarine and Vickers Aviation were absorbed into Vickers-Armstrong, although he came back later to help oversee Spitfire production its unlikely that he would have been involved with the special projects team who developed the pressure cabin. I do not believe that is him in the photo.
Here is a photo from 1941 which I understand is the/a prototype pressurised Spit.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]260147[/ATTACH]