Iran says fires "world's fastest underwater missile"

Thanks, it isn’t like me really… normally I am very long winded… 🙂

Dear Garry B.

Your description of how wire guided torpedoes work in the “real world” is the best I have ever read in what is a texts thumbnail. Most people — ie including myself — have make a chapter to explain it. THANK YOU!

Jack E. Hammond

tRUST ME WHEN I TELL YOU “for what ever weapon Russia sells to a nation” Russia has something more advanced for ourselves, P.S. U.S. will eventually win the war against Iran but not before suffuring the worst loss of U.S.’s military lives scince Vietnam, remember back in 89 when Iran sank the USS STARK! BTW after U.S. defeats IRAN Russia will attack U.S. because Rus will not alow U.S. to monopolise all the OIL, so get ready for WORLDWAR 3.

It was an Iraqi mirage F-1 that “by mistake” fired an exocet against USS Stark,plus USS Stark never sunk…

You’re not getting it…

Wire guidance for Torpedos is similar to wire guidance for Anti tank guided missiles, but not exactly the same. Most wire guided Torpedos have terminal homing in the form of sonar seekers. The problem with modern torpedos is that their sensitivity means that they can only detect and track a target from a short range… the problem is very much like an ARH AAM like R-77. With a lock on range of 20km or so you wouldn’t be able to use it at long range targets unless it had some other form of guidance. That other form of guidance is an updating datalink. You fire the missile to where the launch aircrafts sensors determine where the target will be when the missile gets there. If the target manouvers… perhaps in response to your launch then you sent course corrections to change the flight direction and profile of the missile so it will still intercept the target. With a tiny target like a fighterjet then more precise guidance is needed for a hit. For enormous slow moving targets like ships then the update link is all you need most of the time. There is also the factor that the target will be concentrating on the very loud very fast approaching torpedo so the sub that launched it can disappear again by diving and quietly leaving the area.

Yes there are,in a thread on “Modern Military Aviation” page.

Any pictures of “Flying Boat”

No… I am speaking about Arabian Gulf…
There is misunderstanding about it…
Iran calls it “PERSIAN Gulf” and Arab calls it “Arabian Gulf”

Iran and pretty much the rest of the world calls it the Persian Gulf. Unless you are Arab then I imagine your country is amongst the Persian Gulf persuasion.

Daniel

Sure you’re not confusing it with the Arabian Sea which is the body of water just outside the Gulf?

Daniel

No… I am speaking about Arabian Gulf…
There is misunderstanding about it…
Iran calls it “PERSIAN Gulf” and Arab calls it “Arabian Gulf”

Now why bring up the MK 48 or any conventional modern torpedo?

Because you said:

I actually said that sonar guidance by the torpedo is impossible

Had you said that Schkval is not possible to be guided by sonar, I would not contradict you. I thought that you meant that sonar guidance is not possible for torpedoes in general.

Barracuda is a German super fast Torpedo project.

For German speakers: http://www.prosieben.de/imperia/md/content/images/04_lifestyle_magazine/wunderwelt_wissen/WW_Torpedo_3.PDF

http://www.morgenwelt.de/609.1.html

http://www.diehl-bgt-defence.de/index.php?id=550&L=1

Barracuda

Barracuda is a technology demonstration program for a supercavitating underwater missile for defence against torpedoes and for engagement of submarines. It is equipped with a rocket motor, inertial reference unit/autopilot and a mobile, conus-shaped tip. The rocket motor provides Barracuda with an underwater speed of 360km/hr, the inertial reference unit/autopilot stabilizes the missile and the flexible nose cone provides steering. During underwater travel, Barracuda moves in an air bubble, the so-called cavitation bubble which greatly reduces the water resistance, thus enabling the high speed. Some test models of the underwater missile have been built, successfully demonstrating stable straight and curved path accuracy in several tests. Barracuda will be deployed from submarines and from surface vessels.

I’m waiting for some country to deploy a 3 stage anti-ship cruise missile that launches a self defence anti-radar missile and drops a supercavitating underwater missile as well as it’s own warhead :dev2:

Tha’s the same my friend 😉
IS the past it was called “PERSIAN GULF” but now it is called “Arabic or Arabian Gulf”

Sure you’re not confusing it with the Arabian Sea which is the body of water just outside the Gulf?

Daniel

Not sure which planet this Arabian Gulf is in. But, the one that is the topic of this thread, is called the PERSIAN GULF.

Tha’s the same my friend 😉
IS the past it was called “PERSIAN GULF” but now it is called “Arabic or Arabian Gulf”

From http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/systems/mk-48.htm:

:rolleyes: Now why bring up the MK 48 or any conventional modern torpedo? The Mark 48 is not a super-cavitating torpedo. It’s fired from a submarine guided by passive sonar on the firing sub and then by passive or acoustic homing on the torpedo itself during the terminal phase.

A weapon like the shkval which basically creates a plume of blinding noise behind it that would mask the target you’re firing at and it won’t be able to accoustic acquire its target on its own either for the same reason of noise. The only way you can fire it with wire-guidance is with active pinging.

And subs would NEVER fire by pinging — active painting of the target with sonar — unless it was in extremely dire straits. Of course firing the weapon guarantees that your position is given away anyways.

Wire guiding a super cavitating torp in the direction of the target would be like trying to direct a rocket that’s blowing a blinding firestorm into your face. You can’t see the target.

So does that mean calling it the Persian Gulf is insulting to all Arabs 🙂 I thought we were supposed to be being nice to the Arabs so they didn’t fly anymore planes into buildings full of people. Oh the dilema’s never end.

Daniel

Next thing you know, they are calling the Persian Cat, Arabian Cat, and Persian Carpet, Arabian
Carpet ^_^

I actually said that sonar guidance by the torpedo is impossible

From http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/systems/mk-48.htm:

A highly capable weapon, the MK 48 can be used against surface ships or submarines, and has been test fired under the Arctic ice pack and in other arduous conditions. The ADCAP version, in comparison with earlier MK 48 torpedoes, has improved target acquisition range, reduced vulnerability to enemy countermeasures, reduced shipboard constraints such as warmup and reactivation time, and enhanced effectiveness against surface ships. The MK 48 is propelled by a piston engine with twin, contra-rotating propellers in a pump jet or shrouded configuration. The engine uses a liquid monopropellant fuel, and the torpedo has a conventional, high-explosive warhead. The MK 48 has a sophisticated guidance system permitting a variety of attack options. As the torpedo leaves the submarine’s launch tube a thin wire spins out, electronically linking the submarine and torpedo. This enables an operator in the submarine, with access to the submarine’s sensitive sonar systems, initially to guide the torpedo toward the target. This helps the torpedo avoid decoys and jamming devices that might be deployed by the target. The wire is severed and the torpedo’s high-powered active/passive sonar guides the torpedo during the final attack.

The MK 48 Mod 5 ADCAP torpedo is an improvement to the MK 48 submarine launched torpedo. It is a heavyweight acoustic homing torpedo with sophisticated sonar and a fuzed warhead.

So, unless you are an Arab nationalist, the use of any name other than the PERSIAN GULF is inapropriate, and insulting to every single iranian.

So does that mean calling it the Persian Gulf is insulting to all Arabs 🙂 I thought we were supposed to be being nice to the Arabs so they didn’t fly anymore planes into buildings full of people. Oh the dilema’s never end.

Daniel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Gulf_naming_dispute

Ken

Here are a couple of lines of inserts from the link you pointed to:

“”Since the 1960s, there has been movement in some Arab countries to refer to the Persian Gulf as the “Arabian Gulf”, and it has become an ongoing naming dispute.

In possibly every map printed before 1960 and in most modern international treaties, documents and maps, this body of water is known by the name “Persian Gulf”, reflecting traditional usage since the Greek geographers Strabo and Ptolemy, and the geopolitical realities of the time with a powerful Persian Empire (Iran) comprising the whole northern coastline and a scattering of local emirates on the Arabian coast.

Persian Gulf affirmed as the standard name by the UN and the US.

The United Nations on many occasions has requested that only Persian Gulf be used as the standard geographical designation for that body of water.

Most recently, the UN Secretariat has issued two editorial directives in 1994 and 1999 affirming the position of this organization on this matter.””

So, unless you are an Arab nationalist, the use of any name other than the PERSIAN GULF is inapropriate, and insulting to every single iranian.

The Soviets have had rocket propelled torpedos since the 50s… the RAT-52 was one of their first in service.

And for those who state it can’t be guided… have obviously not heard of wire guidance for torpedos.

I actually said that sonar guidance by the torpedo is impossible. Semantics aside, you can probably wire guide it like a TOW missile, I suppose, with line of sight. Every other weapon would come into range including the phalanx by the time it can be directed by sight.

As for wire guidance from ship or sub, the target signature would be masked by the cone of noise coming from your super cavitating rocket torpedo headed in the same direction so targeting can’t be passive. You have to openly ping your target to use any wire guidance. It’s a straight line weapon on a close target.

Toy or no toy it sure does effect the balance through which US will conduct its war in gulf (if any in future). Neat gadgets coming out of the unkown. I wonder is that all or just a hint of wht is in store if USA like to venture into Iran. Comments guys?

Maybe the Iranians claim of radar evading capabilities simply refers to the the fact that the flying boat would fly low; inherently it would be harder to locate for a ship radar, compared with a conventional plane flying at high-medium altitudes. However, no US battle group travel without its Hawkeyes. I doubt that such a system would have trouble in detecting the flying boat.

Well i dont know about the capability of doing such a thing or not , i just keep my answer concerned to the motive part of a preemptive strike by Iran. I wonder do they really wana go into war with America to an extent that they go for a pre emptive strike. Yes if USA is already in war with Iran then tht strike wont be pre emptive will it be. Comments guys?

I believe that the threat that really concerns USN is not the flying boat or the Iranian Shkval (either sold by the Russians or a an Iranian clone). Probably the ~20 North Korean-built fast-attack patrol boats armed with Chinese C-802 antiship cruise missiles (60-mile range), the Chinese HY-2 Silkworm antiship cruise missiles orthe three Russian Kilo-class diesel submarines with conventional torpedoes are considered more dangerous.

A target at 30 kms would have plenty of warning despite the 200knt speed of the Shkval and turning bow or stern on would make it a rather small target for a weapon with no terminal seeker.

All the sources I’ve seen credit the Schkval (the original Russian) with a range of 10-12 miles. Moreover some sources say: the kill probablity at 7000 yards is ~ 80 %.

I repeat: hard to believe that a torpedo boat/sub. could come so close to a USN ship in wartime.