Iran's actions are completely indefensible!

I’m originally from Liverpool…I’m really going to buy The Sun aren’t I!. Dont know what the Matthew Kyle show is but I’ll hazard a guess at something like Parkinson?.

You cant see the funny side because you’re a civvy who doesnt understand the service ethos in the Royal Navy. Thats no accusation – just statement of simple fact. If you knew the institutional character involved you would react differently.

By taking this action the MoD may be hailed as acting distastefully, but, there will be large chunks of the Royal Navy that are extraordinarily amused that someones going to pay a bunch of matelots for their dits.

The line about the sickening loss of 4 personnel in Basra I find hard to understand in the context of the 15 Navy personnel writing stories?. Do you mean its somehow ‘not fair’ that the sailors can write their stories and the soldiers cant?.

To be honest Ren I find that an incredible statement if that is what you meant?. I would again advise you that you do not understand the services mindset if you do think that as there is no way that a matelot would expect a squaddie to pass up a daft amount of money telling an absolutely unrelated story to the press if the roles where reversed.

Jonsey, I can take your points about the mindset that comes from being in the services and if you see these events as a bit of an ‘in joke’ that the ‘civvies’ wouldn’t understand, then fair enough…?

But as you correctly assert, I am a civilian on the outside looking in and I did find it extremely distasteful that the navy personnel were granted permission to ‘sell their stories’ on the day four of their army colleagues were so publicly slaughtered in Iraq. How do you think the ‘civvy’ families of those dead soldiers might feel reading the news that not only were the navy people lucky enough to be freed unhurt from what could have become a deadly situation, and then to be allowed to capitalise on their experiences by making money from commercial agencies, whilst their loved ones body parts were being put into plastic bags ?

Yes, I know there are people who would see it as just a chance to make a few quid for those guys, but IMHO that kind of opportunism should be left to the kind of trailer trash that appear on TV shows such as ‘Matthew Kyle’ and ‘Trisha’. It’s not the kind of behaviour I expect the MoD to encourage or our servicemen and women to indulge in. But what the heck do I know ?

Oh and BTW those TV shows I mention are daytime talk shows normally aimed at the lowest common denominator and generally based around such intelligent discussion topics such as infidelity, inter-family relationships, absent parents and ‘What to do with little Timmy Chav/ned/junkie/alcoholic?’ :rolleyes: Kind of like a domestic dispute live every morning on ITV.:D

They’ll be claiming all sorts of abuse shortly, but I doubt their stories will match. A bit of torture and deprivation Sells books you see.

I’ll tell you this now the stories will be embellished and will tell of how the underfunded RN is trying to do its best without the resources to do the job properly. If I read the new 1SL right that is!

No doubt you’ll be grinning all the way to the newsagent to pick up your copy of the Sun then, or tuning into an edition of The Matthew Kyle Show to see the sailors tell their tale with a caption superimposed along the lines of “My Islamic hell!” ?

Nope, sorry I can’t really see the funny side, not especially as they are being allowed to ‘cash in’ on a set of unfortunate circumstances that have been described by the powers that be as ‘carrying out their duties’ whilst referring to the sailors as ‘still on duty’.

I bet those four troops, blown up in Basra they day the sailors came home, would like to sell their stories too ? Unfortunately they never will and one questions the integrity of a Ministry of Defence that thinks it’s ok to reward it’s servicemen with tabloid and celebrity status ? ‘X-Factor’ culture rules OK !

I’m originally from Liverpool…I’m really going to buy The Sun aren’t I!. Dont know what the Matthew Kyle show is but I’ll hazard a guess at something like Parkinson?.

You cant see the funny side because you’re a civvy who doesnt understand the service ethos in the Royal Navy. Thats no accusation – just statement of simple fact. If you knew the institutional character involved you would react differently.

By taking this action the MoD may be hailed as acting distastefully, but, there will be large chunks of the Royal Navy that are extraordinarily amused that someones going to pay a bunch of matelots for their dits.

The line about the sickening loss of 4 personnel in Basra I find hard to understand in the context of the 15 Navy personnel writing stories?. Do you mean its somehow ‘not fair’ that the sailors can write their stories and the soldiers cant?.

To be honest Ren I find that an incredible statement if that is what you meant?. I would again advise you that you do not understand the services mindset if you do think that as there is no way that a matelot would expect a squaddie to pass up a daft amount of money telling an absolutely unrelated story to the press if the roles where reversed.

They’ll be claiming all sorts of abuse shortly, but I doubt their stories will match. A bit of torture and deprivation Sells books you see.

Ren,

I read that BBC piece you put up and know I should find it distasteful and disagreeable. I am sorry to say I cannot and I’m sorrier to admit that I’m even grinning as I type this.

There is something that is very fundamental to the service ethos about this. It, to an extent, is the same thing as when I saw one of the lads shaking hands with Ahmedinejad and giving him the ‘yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir’ routine.

I have to admit I was creased up laughing then because I could read the guys mind and I’ll tell you that, despite the danger, he was thinking ‘I’m giving a fresh load of bull to the the bloody Prime Minister of Iran and he’s lapping it up’. He nearly managed to suppress the grin as well….but not quite.

That guy is destined to be a mythological figure in the RN…especially if he manages to get a TV deal out of it.

The reason I cant condemn them is that being impertinet and ‘cheeky’ is traditional in the Navy. Discipline may be strictly upheld but, sometimes, the letter of the law and the spirit of the law can be widely differing things. This news is entirely in keeping with that spirit on the strength that they got a cr@p deal initially and here’s a way to get something back off it.

I’ll admit I know what Col. Bob is saying about wanting this to just fade away as a bad memory and you cant deny he has a point, but, the other comment about the ‘odd incentivisation’ is one of the strangest things I’ve ever read. Did the writer really believe that matelots would be trolling around Iranian waters trying to get picked up so they could sell a story later I wonder?

No doubt you’ll be grinning all the way to the newsagent to pick up your copy of the Sun then, or tuning into an edition of The Matthew Kyle Show to see the sailors tell their tale with a caption superimposed along the lines of “My Islamic hell!” ?

Nope, sorry I can’t really see the funny side, not especially as they are being allowed to ‘cash in’ on a set of unfortunate circumstances that have been described by the powers that be as ‘carrying out their duties’ whilst referring to the sailors as ‘still on duty’.

I bet those four troops, blown up in Basra they day the sailors came home, would like to sell their stories too ? Unfortunately they never will and one questions the integrity of a Ministry of Defence that thinks it’s ok to reward it’s servicemen with tabloid and celebrity status ? ‘X-Factor’ culture rules OK !

Ren,

I read that BBC piece you put up and know I should find it distasteful and disagreeable. I am sorry to say I cannot and I’m sorrier to admit that I’m even grinning as I type this.

There is something that is very fundamental to the service ethos about this. It, to an extent, is the same thing as when I saw one of the lads shaking hands with Ahmedinejad and giving him the ‘yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir’ routine.

I have to admit I was creased up laughing then because I could read the guys mind and I’ll tell you that, despite the danger, he was thinking ‘I’m giving a fresh load of bull to the the bloody Prime Minister of Iran and he’s lapping it up’. He nearly managed to suppress the grin as well….but not quite.

That guy is destined to be a mythological figure in the RN…especially if he manages to get a TV deal out of it.

The reason I cant condemn them is that being impertinet and ‘cheeky’ is traditional in the Navy. Discipline may be strictly upheld but, sometimes, the letter of the law and the spirit of the law can be widely differing things. This news is entirely in keeping with that spirit on the strength that they got a cr@p deal initially and here’s a way to get something back off it.

I’ll admit I know what Col. Bob is saying about wanting this to just fade away as a bad memory and you cant deny he has a point, but, the other comment about the ‘odd incentivisation’ is one of the strangest things I’ve ever read. Did the writer really believe that matelots would be trolling around Iranian waters trying to get picked up so they could sell a story later I wonder?

The sell out starts here.. ‘quelle surprise’

Oh what’s this latest twist in the b*ll**** fairy tale of our distinguished service people…?

C’mon Sealord, even you can’t approve of this…?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6536203.stm

Yes its odd that there are echoes of catch 22 in all this affair.

Indeed you are entitled to your analysis but I beg to differ. Are you suggesting that this was a press conference, intended to offer the private sentiments of those individuals ? I’d suggest they are as much a part of the political game, this side of the (GPS negotiable) fence as they were on the Iranian side. Let’s not kid ourselves on here…

Now, that said… I don’t expect they were treated to anything like the kindnesses they were made to claim on Iranian television broadcasts last week. I don’t fall for that nonsense any sooner than any other viewer, not least the Iranian television viewers. I’m even less inclined to fall for such an obviously stage managed PR exercise such as today’s shenanigans, particularly when the ‘MoD’ missed or declined the opportunity to hold a Q&A at Heathrow Airport yesterday, instead choosing to create a media orientated fuss of whisking said persons away aboard military helicopters.

Why didn’t they just fly the Airbus straight to a ‘military base’ or are we supposed to believe that our captured individuals were only treated to economy class tickets on a scheduled B-Med flight from Tehran ?

Plenty of ‘showbusiness’ going on on both sides I’d suggest ?

Just a thought, if this team had made a right mess of things & had been lying then they would have landed and been hidden away but they werent and it needs to be noted that they have been allowed to talk freely without Senior Officers or Slimeys sticking their noses in.

Finally, the B-Med would have been logistically easier, and besides the RAF (Royal Aeroplane Flying) are a bit busy and also using the RAF to pick them up would have given them Iranians another chance to do something just as stupid.

It has also been a great PR stunt for both sides (I’ll leave it there with this one or I might get meself into trouble LoL) Bex

With all due respect this was not the MoD but the personell themselves. Considering the somewhat distressed looks on some of the sailors faces (paticuarly Faye Turney) when they were paraded on Iranian TV I am inclined to believe them.

Indeed you are entitled to your analysis but I beg to differ. Are you suggesting that this was a press conference, intended to offer the private sentiments of those individuals ? I’d suggest they are as much a part of the political game, this side of the (GPS negotiable) fence as they were on the Iranian side. Let’s not kid ourselves on here…

Now, that said… I don’t expect they were treated to anything like the kindnesses they were made to claim on Iranian television broadcasts last week. I don’t fall for that nonsense any sooner than any other viewer, not least the Iranian television viewers. I’m even less inclined to fall for such an obviously stage managed PR exercise such as today’s shenanigans, particularly when the ‘MoD’ missed or declined the opportunity to hold a Q&A at Heathrow Airport yesterday, instead choosing to create a media orientated fuss of whisking said persons away aboard military helicopters.

Why didn’t they just fly the Airbus straight to a ‘military base’ or are we supposed to believe that our captured individuals were only treated to economy class tickets on a scheduled B-Med flight from Tehran ?

Plenty of ‘showbusiness’ going on on both sides I’d suggest ?

Are we suggesting that whatever the MOD says at a PR offensive is gospel ?

All’s fair in love and war, especially at press conferences. And yes I have been to few in my time.:rolleyes:

With all due respect this was not the MoD but the personell themselves. Considering the somewhat distressed looks on some of the sailors faces (paticuarly Faye Turney) when they were paraded on Iranian TV I am inclined to believe them.

Are we suggesting that whatever the MOD says at a PR offensive is gospel ?

All’s fair in love and war, especially at press conferences. And yes I have been to few in my time.:rolleyes:

Read this, only the most disturbed individual could defend this. It is completely out of proportion. Looks like it is the Iranian government that should be apologising not the Brits.:mad:

sealordlawrence.

The real tragedy is that it only took 16 minutes for pesho to reveal themselves to be ‘the most disturbed individual.’

It is shocking that the British Service personnel were treated in the way they have been, but then is it altogether surprising when you consider the corrupt and fundamentally evil elements which masterminded their capture and subsequent detention?

Regards,

kev35

To trust UK army is the last thing i’ll do.Look more like good propaganda tool.Same as “Iran support terrorism in Iraq”,said yesterday by the same person that lied about the reasons behind the Iraq invasion,and also not backed up by any solid evidence.It’s just stupidity to trust someone like him.
By the way why they look so “fresh”?If they were threated so bad for 13 days…

1) The Iranians do support terrorism in Iraq, maybe you could explain why else there would be IRGC personell there?:rolleyes:

2)So you trust the Iranians do you? This being the country that changed its mind about the exact coordinates of the seizure after they realised that the first ones they gave were inside Iraqi waters?:rolleyes:

2) These people were not physically tortured, thus after a good nights sleep and a shower they would be looking fresh.:rolleyes:

To trust UK army is the last thing i’ll do.Look more like good propaganda tool.Same as “Iran support terrorism in Iraq”,said yesterday by the same person that lied about the reasons behind the Iraq invasion,and also not backed up by any solid evidence.It’s just stupidity to trust someone like him.
By the way why they look so “fresh”?If they were threated so bad for 13 days…