Iraqi Fury trainer pics link

Sorry, been on Flickr again..

Alex – I should imagine the storage fees from 1973 to present date would amount to more than the value of a Fury ! I very much doubt if Mr Tallichet would leave it there!
As for the importance of the Fury – more important to the Iraqi people as they don’t seem to have many left with collectors buying some -some being bombed and various others picked to death. Maybe the secret would be to put it in a HAS shelter and forget about her for a while until the Iraqi Air Force museum has had a chance to be
established!

perfect solution…it is their aircraft after all !

Stifling of debate……

so we came from a thread about a Fury to politics about Irak, Iran and Israel? Mods, isn’t it time to lock this thread?

Lock the tread? 😮

Why? They can simply move the relevant section to General discussion where it belongs ! wouldn’t be the first time !!!! :dev2:

Not unsubstantiated at all. The bank accounts are fact and he has chosen not to respond to the UNs questioning regarding the missing charity millions.

I am beginning to wonder of we even talking about the same person here !!! what happened when he made himself available to the vultures in the US Admin and not only faced them down but threw their allegations back in their face? where was their evidence ?

As regards the Iran-Iraq war, I think you’ll find the French and Russians pumped in 95% of Saddams needs. Of course this fact would prevent any US bashing, so we’ll ignore that. And if you’re not concerned about a man who wants to build nuclear weapons, who repeatedly states his aim as wiping Israel off the map, you should be

again i think you havent understood the point..

How many times did Rumsfeld visit Sadam? To what purpose ? Money and Support from an International Power is as important as physical arms !

And when did i mention the present ” crisis ” with regard to the Iranian Nuclear crisis? how long has the Iranian president been in power? I was talking about the Iran/Iraq war of the 80’s !!! Remember it ?

with regards to ignoring things we will leave that to the Blinkered fools in the past and present US & Uk admins who cant see further than the next dollar or how to retain power for that little bit longer !!! 😡

The area around Bagdhad is a mess at the moment. Most of the country is peaceful. As far as the media is concerned, peace doesn’t make for good viewing figures

another Fox news advocate ??

this is reality:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5052138.stm

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/forces/casualties/

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/10/30/iraq.ustoll.reut/index.html

Unfortunately lots of religious extremist are taking every opportunity to grease their own palms, knowing the US will be blamed.

And who provides them with their opportunities? Abu Graib ? Civilian casulaties in excess of 20,000 and prob 50,000 ? Murder and rape by US Forces ? Beatings by UK forces ?

It’s perfectly true that the coalition planning for the end of the war was poor, but it’s not the US running around with death squads.

Poor ? non existant more like ! and as for the death squads ? REALLY?????

WHO NEEDS THEM!

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5418814

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6496898/

http://www.wcbs880.com/pages/43590.php?contentType=4&contentId=153393

and sometimes it isnt just Iraqi’s ;

http://blog.canadianjournalist.ca/blog/_archives/2006/10/13/2413985.html

what a disgrace for what for many years was a fine branch of the US armed services.

Alex – I should imagine the storage fees from 1973 to present date would amount to more than the value of a Fury ! I very much doubt if Mr Tallichet would leave it there!
As for the importance of the Fury – more important to the Iraqi people as they don’t seem to have many left with collectors buying some -some being bombed and various others picked to death. Maybe the secret would be to put it in a HAS shelter and forget about her for a while until the Iraqi Air Force museum has had a chance to be
established!

Fouga – I should imagine the first Iraqi Fury trainer to come back to the U.K is as a direct result of politics ! Was there any likelyhood of it coming back otherwise?

Baghdad Fury

Hi,

Indeed back in 1973 when David Tallichet visited Iraq and purchased the famous 23 Furies out there they were in reasonable condition and best described as having been ‘stored’.

Do we know/ Can it be found if this fuselage is not in fact one of those said to have been purchased and placed in storage by Tallichet ?

If it is then it can be removed from Iraq .

Also It is important that this fuselage is saved. Being one of only 5 T.20’s taken up by Iraq.

Originally back in December 1946 the then Iraqi Government placed an order for 30 fighter/fighter-bombers. These became known as “Baghdad Furies” and were built and delivered in 47/48.

Four two-seat Fury Trainers were also ordered, this was later reduced to two aircraft. The Admiralty taking up the first one, VX818 ( Iraq number 264) and had it converted to RN standard. A second one was taken and delivered to Pakistan.

Then in 1950/51 the Iraqi Government ordered a further 3 Sea Fury Trainers.

So Five aircraft in all.

How many of these five now survive ?
How many original T.20’s now exist ?

VX818 ( Iraq number 264) to Royal Navy
VX305 Sold to Pakistan as K858 – fate ?
? – ( Iraq number 261) – fate ?
? – ( Iraq number 263) – fate ?

VZ347 ( Iraq number 328) – fate ?
VZ348 ( Iraq number 329) – fate ?
VZ367 ( Iraq number 327) re sold in 1952 to ?- fate ?

So in my humble oppinion it is very important that this fuselage be salved.

Alex

so we came from a thread about a Fury to politics about Irak, Iran and Israel? Mods, isn’t it time to lock this thread?

mlc- Are you really suggesting that Israel as a nation will wait until Iran becomes a serious threat to them or do you think they will strike when then feel the time is right as they did back in the 1970’s. As for your other comments – there are vast swages of Iraq in peace – however that is because large amounts of it consist of absolutely nothing apart from desert. As for the death squads – various factions are involved but most worrying is the implication that government forces are taking part in the activity. Pretty much as it was under Saddam.

sounds interesting though repetitive and proven to be unsubstantiated….

but do you see this as being as contemptible as a certain very senior member of the present US Administration who was a quest of good old Iran bashing Saddam how many times? How much money did the good ole U.S of A. pump into Iraq during their war with Iran? Is this contemptible as well ?

Not unsubstantiated at all. The bank accounts are fact and he has chosen not to respond to the UNs questioning regarding the missing charity millions.

As regards the Iran-Iraq war, I think you’ll find the French and Russians pumped in 95% of Saddams needs. Of course this fact would prevent any US bashing, so we’ll ignore that. And if you’re not concerned about a man who wants to build nuclear weapons, who repeatedly states his aim as wiping Israel off the map, you should be.

The area around Bagdhad is a mess at the moment. Most of the country is peaceful. As far as the media is concerned, peace doesn’t make for good viewing figures. Unfortunately lots of religious extremist are taking every opportunity to grease their own palms, knowing the US will be blamed.
It’s perfectly true that the coalition planning for the end of the war was poor, but it’s not the US running around with death squads.

It took us quitte some time here in the western world to appreciate the value of older aircraft and start collecting, restoring and displaying them. In the meantime a lot of valuable material was lost forever so that we now go under the ice, into the seas and into the swamps to collect the remains of aircraft that were once all too common. If an airframe in Iraq is currently under threat (which they are in my opinion) I would prefer it to be brought out and stored, restored or displayed so that it is preserved for future generations. If Iraq develops in such a way that one day they can foster an interest in historic aircraft the aircraft could always be returned.

but if the Iraqi ‘s DIDNT have an interest in preserving aircraft how did these aircraft survive so far ???? as stated already they have preserved many military artifects only for some of them to fall prey to the all singing all dancing ” smart ” weapons of the much vaunted Western War machine !!!!

gee whizzzz maybe ole SH was going to use the Furies to launch his WMD ??? 😮

In order to prevent any action against the forum…I won’t. But all the info you need isn’t hard to find. Just look into the wealth of a certain oedious, thoroughly corrupt individual with a luxury home in Portugal. A wife who had very large amounts paid into a bank account courtesy of the Iraqi oil ministry and the still unaccounted for sums of money that were supposed to be for an injured Iraqi child. (Concerns raised by the UN!) The man might be articulate, but he’s still utterly corrupt.

sounds interesting though repetitive and proven to be unsubstantiated….

but do you see this as being as contemptible as a certain very senior member of the present US Administration who was a quest of good old Iran bashing Saddam how many times? How much money did the good ole U.S of A. pump into Iraq during their war with Iran? Is this contemptible as well ?

It and stored, restored or displayed so that it is preserved for future generations. If Iraq develops in such a way that one day they can foster an interest in historic aircraft the aircraft could always be returned.

The only people who can decide if ‘Iraq has developed in a way that the west wants to’ are the Iraqis themselves. Its their property and they can decided if they want to preserve it or scrap it.

If conservators in the west want to do something about it, they should go about it in the legal way in acquring it from the iraqi government, once the country settles down i.e.

Maple – Not quite sure where your coming from! Are you an Iraqi or do you have a history degree on the area? You maintain that you know more about it then me – well good on you ! As for being ‘spoon fed’ by the U.K media – would that be the media that was mislead by the government on chemical weapons hitting our troops within 45 minutes or possibly the Mod which engaged in a ‘you tell me a name’ charade with the press until guessed at Dr Kelly. It could also be the same ‘spoon-fed’ media which
upset the Mod with it’s honesty on the treatment of our soldiers in hospital.

As for Saddam – what relevance has he got to this ? The government decided on regime change and the wanted control of oil . No oil in places like Zimbabwe so no intervention – simple as that.

David, I have a new found respect for you!

I think we share very similar views on the unnecessary Iraq invasion, the criminal Phoney Bliar and the rest of his rotten barrel of apples and the least said about the Moron George Bush and his nazis the better.

Kelly slipped on a bar of soap.

Let the Iraqi’s keep their heritage, in fact lets restore their Fury and install it in a museum of their choice in the future, if there is anything left after Phoney and George have finished with Iraq….

Lets hope and pray that Iran isn’t next on their list to be ‘Democratised’ next month…

It took us quitte some time here in the western world to appreciate the value of older aircraft and start collecting, restoring and displaying them. In the meantime a lot of valuable material was lost forever so that we now go under the ice, into the seas and into the swamps to collect the remains of aircraft that were once all too common. If an airframe in Iraq is currently under threat (which they are in my opinion) I would prefer it to be brought out and stored, restored or displayed so that it is preserved for future generations. If Iraq develops in such a way that one day they can foster an interest in historic aircraft the aircraft could always be returned.

Maple – Not quite sure where your coming from! Are you an Iraqi or do you have a history degree on the area? You maintain that you know more about it then me – well good on you ! As for being ‘spoon fed’ by the U.K media – would that be the media that was mislead by the government on chemical weapons hitting our troops within 45 minutes or possibly the Mod which engaged in a ‘you tell me a name’ charade with the press until guessed at Dr Kelly. It could also be the same ‘spoon-fed’ media which
upset the Mod with it’s honesty on the treatment of our soldiers in hospital.

As for Saddam – what relevance has he got to this ? The government decided on regime change and the wanted control of oil . No oil in places like Zimbabwe so no intervention – simple as that.

OK David you clearly know more about Iraq than I, when do you want Saddam back? PM me if you rearly want to know how much I do know about this subject, I still maintain all you ‘know’ has been spoon-fed to you by UK the media and others with an agenda- just maybe you’ve been misinformed?

As for British politicians receiving oil money from Saddam – name some people and give your evidence if you feel there is a case to answer.

In order to prevent any action against the forum…I won’t. But all the info you need isn’t hard to find. Just look into the wealth of a certain oedious, thoroughly corrupt individual with a luxury home in Portugal. A wife who had very large amounts paid into a bank account courtesy of the Iraqi oil ministry and the still unaccounted for sums of money that were supposed to be for an injured Iraqi child. (Concerns raised by the UN!) The man might be articulate, but he’s still utterly corrupt.

The Iraqi people have every right to preserve their heritage – the fact they cannot do so right now is no indication that they cannot in future. There has been past interest in preserving aircraft witness the aircraft park in the Green Zone housing a D.H Dove and Heron amongst others.

Bring it Harm’s way! Seriously, I don’t think those Iraqi’s are really interested in these relics (they have more important things on their minds I guess) so bring the airplane out and find a good home for it. Better get it out and in relative safety than let it stay with the risk that someday there will be nothing left of it.

Maybe not at present. However in the future maybe a retired pilot/mechanic would like to show his grandkid what he worked on. Also as mentioned on this thread, there have been a/c on poles which means they have actually been displayed.
Using your rationale, does that mean it would be fair game to travel to any european AFB, claim and dismantle any gate guards present as there might not be anything left of them in a decade or so?
I seem to remember that F-15 driver Randy Haskin mentioned on a forum seeing footage of an air-to-ground missile nailing an Iraqi Fury during this war. Which means that the biggest danger might not necessarily be due to lack of interest from the Iraqis…

T J
Ready and willing to “liberate”