Iraqi prisoners 'abused'

I think it was at least accpeted by the higher officers.

And don´t give me that “they probably were in a fight just before …. ” They were working a prison guards – period. I doubt these US soldiers did see real combat for weeks or months. For me thsi is typical REM behavior – play cool with your prisoners so that you have something cool to show when you get home. .

There is NO doubt that some of the reason behind this was because of the FACT that these guys were trying to kill Americans. ThAT fact makes it very esy for idiots to justify such disgusting acts. You are both missing my point–I’m trying to give an insight to the reasons, NOT to justify it.

It’s like a trophy, of some sorts. Some people posed with Iraqis, holding up signs saying “Thank you Lt.smith!”, Some posed holding up signs saying “LT. Smith killed my Dad!”(Not sure if that was proven to be a hoax or not, there were several GOOD photos circulating, all with different messages). Some posed with pictures of Iraqi prisoners being put in humilitaing poses.

There are going to be a$$HOLES in the military–I know one or two.
MOST don’t do this sort of stuff, Very few of them do. However, just like anything else, only the new is reported, and NOT commiting horrible and cruel acts of humiliation of prisoners is not news, but pictures of the humiliation IS news. And it is embarassing to me, to the military, and I’m SURE it’s embarassing to the President, who RELIES on the image of the US military to help his cause. So much so, he’s going on Arab TV today.

We’re hoping to give the Arab world a good impression with the conduct of the forces in Iraq. I doubt ANYTHING could have hurt that more than those jackasses that did this to the prisoners. Even if they didn’t hurt them, but simply took pictures of them, for whatever reason, they should have known that it WOULD LOOK REALLY BAD TO MUSLIMS. for that, they should all be punished as if they deliberatly tried to undermine the operation, for that is percisely what they did.

I just want to smack that stupid girl with the t-shirt and the cigarette…little bi**h…

If Saddam Insane was still in charge people would be dragged outside and shot or tossed off a roof and none here would have a thing to say. It’s sad that a few idiots have compromised the many good deeds that the vast majority of military personnel and civilians alike have done in Iraq but unfortunately that’s happened. However, in the end, the truth will come out and those responsible will be punished.

Meantime it provides good fodder for the superior types in the press, those in the Middle-east and elsewhere who would lecture the US and the UK on human rights while they tolerate, support and encourage far worse crimes in their own countries (especially if its directed against the US or Israel) and those everywhere who oppose any action by the US but fall mute when it comes to events such as those taking place in the Sudan where 1000’s die each week according to the UN and others. The same UN which just accepted Sudan as a member of its human rights body, skimmed the Iraq Oil for Food program and protects UN reps who behave like perverts on UN missions like the one in Cambodia.

Sauron

I think it was at least accpeted by the higher officers.

And don´t give me that “they probably were in a fight just before …. ” They were working a prison guards – period. I doubt these US soldiers did see real combat for weeks or months. For me thsi is typical REM behavior – play cool with your prisoners so that you have something cool to show when you get home.
I alos don´t buy the “every large group of people has some strange people in it”. hat is correct, but in an army such things should not happen simply because it is tight controlled social group. If one soldier would have done something and he would have been reported by other soldiers, then I would accept that explanation. But a group of soldiers under the eyes of the officers – no. That was done intentional.

Such behavior is a disgrace for every professional army. It is a disgrace for the officer corps, the US president and finally the US.

The soldiers of the worlds leading power of freedom and democracy being nothing more then some sadistic perverts.
I bet those pictures will haunt the US and most probably totally innocent people will pay the price.

so the prison gaurds are now acting as judge jury and executioner? :rolleyes: and if normal soilders are allowed to just walts into prisions and torchure prisioners for fun, then the US military has got itself a far greater problem then just some pervert prison gaurds having a sexual fantasy played out.

the mere possibility the these gaurds might have had a bone to pick cos they saw a US soilder get shot on CNN doesnt mean crap. if i saw one of my firends get beat up by an american, does it make it understandable for me to take a basefall bat and smack the first american i come across over the head with it? :rolleyes:

what are you on about? you implied that the reason that those soilders were mistreating the prisioners were because they just caught them with an AK47 after a gun battle. thats plainly wrong. these soilders were prison gaurds who most likely never saw real combat, never mind having just narrowly escaped a bullet fired by one of those captives.

how did the rest of your post in aby way backed up your claim that those were just soilders venting anger after a firefight? :rolleyes: they must have been pretty angery to have such large grins across their faces. 😡

>>>>>>>>>>>>
Probably because they’re in a war, and have just got done shooting dozens of people to death, and managed to capture some people that were trying to kill them. They probably never thought the pictures would be circulated, and did something incredibly stupid.

It’s no doubt happening quite often in Iraq. There are bound to be SOME a$$holes in ANY group of several hundred thousand people, military or not.
My friend that recently came back told us of some of the things he saw–not pretty. They never did anything like this to the prisoners, but treatment they gave the people that were trying to kill them was far from pleasant.
The 82nd and the british troops were repsected by the Iraqis, because they took no crap from anybody, and were VERY hard, but not malicious, like THESE idiots.
Being hard or heavy handed in a WAR is one thing, but simply degrading someone–no matter WHAT they did, nor even if they DESERVED to be treated as such–is not acceptable. It’s a black eye on the military, the country and the PURPOSE. Not to mention that the ALREADY biased Arab news networks wll have a field day with the REAL images…
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>…

The prison guards were NOT the only ones doing this! Some acutal soldiers were too. The prison guards know these guys were shooting up their friends, so I’m sure htey have almost as much animosity for them too. They don’t have to have been shot at PERSONALLY to feel just as much anger.

Besides, I never justified it, I clearly stated it wasn’t right in the second part.

Actually I don’t think Nermal was being ‘anti-American’.
If you look at their pictures then you can see the troops with big smiles on their faces; there is absolutely nothing to pin down any particular British soldier (if it is them and not a reconstruction). Maybe that is another point against them – nobody leering at the camera = nobody to take responsibility.

Flood.

I guess that we shouldn’t start here an other “anti-American” thing.
I’m affraid that it’s not a American specific behavior.

However it’s hard for me to believe that those terrible acts are due to some uncontrolled privates. Do you thing that some would have taken pictures if they were not feeling safe with it?
Either the US Army has a real management problem or some officers were involved in the process. I just hope that not only a few scape goats will pay the bill …

Maybe thats because those silly Americans left their faces in the pix to make it easier to identify them later…:rolleyes: – Nermal

well at least the US authourities were quick to condamn such behaviour and punish the people involved and didnt try to put a spin on it.

This is inexcusable behaviour for any military. I am not alone in being disappointed and ashamed at the conduct of these soliders. I still can’t believe NCOs can be that stupid, because this has brought untold damage upon the credibility of coalition forces. Some of these people are probably sexually perverted in their private lives. Their actions were sadistic and calculating.

If there’s OONE thing I hate, it’s when someone quotes PART of a message. Why would you ask me that, when I answered that in the second part of the original post?

This stuff goes on, it always will, and it’s FAR more common that these pictures alone–remember, only the STUPID ones took pictures.

The mistakes the few make in the military reflects on the entire military, and the military reflects on America. Damn right they better put a stop to this.

what are you on about? you implied that the reason that those soilders were mistreating the prisioners were because they just caught them with an AK47 after a gun battle. thats plainly wrong. these soilders were prison gaurds who most likely never saw real combat, never mind having just narrowly escaped a bullet fired by one of those captives.

how did the rest of your post in aby way backed up your claim that those were just soilders venting anger after a firefight? :rolleyes: they must have been pretty angery to have such large grins across their faces. 😡

100% agreed.

I tell you why I demand a better conduct of the US Army – or any professionell army for that matter.

1. They are a professional army. They are not using conscripts. I would expect that professionals are well trained and equipped to do their job – and to do it the right way. The correct way to handle prisoners should be trained.

2. If is really happening on a larger scale, then the non-coms and comissioned officers have clearly failed. You should expect that the army has guidelines enforced that would keep such things from happening.

3. If you are invading a country to free the people, it is a bad move to torture people while doing so. Furthermore they should have expected to be forced to handle prisoners. They should have trained people before going to Iraq.

For me the US Army can´t be compared to a conscript army fighting for the freedom of theri country, or an army dedicated to keep an evil dictator in power.

If they would have shot some one directly after a fight, because he killed some fellow soldiers and it was directly after the battle. I would say that this is human and something that can happen to everyone. But here we are looking at some little sadistic perverts that enjoy there power over the captives. It is a disgrace that the officers did cover such things.

I did say it before and I say it again. Iraq will be a second Vietnam.

That is only partly true. We are talking about the US Army, the main power of freedom and democracy. The army that went inot Iraq to bring peace, freedom and a better life to the people of Iraq. The army sent by politcians, because Saddam was breaking human rights.

This army is now turning out to be not better then any of Saddam´s thugs.

If regular soldiers are behaving that way, I really don´t wanna know how other agencies and private contractors are working their prisoners.

I agree! however why do you think that the US army would be more “human righ” oriented than an other one?

Every army involved in a naughty conflict has been accused of such human rights violations are was certainly guilty of those.

However we don’t speak of genocide here!
The question is , are those unacceptable acts rare or not.

“Probably because they’re in a war, and have just got done shooting dozens of people to death, and managed to capture some people that were trying to kill them. They probably never thought the pictures would be circulated, and did something incredibly stupid. ”

as i recall, those pics were taken in a prison, and the soilders in the pictures were prison gaurds, not combat troops.

even if someone did shot at u, it didnt make it right to abuse and humiliate them that way! how would u feel if the american soilder that was taken captive was striped naked and made to w**k in public?

If there’s OONE thing I hate, it’s when someone quotes PART of a message. Why would you ask me that, when I answered that in the second part of the original post?

This stuff goes on, it always will, and it’s FAR more common that these pictures alone–remember, only the STUPID ones took pictures.

The mistakes the few make in the military reflects on the entire military, and the military reflects on America. Damn right they better put a stop to this.

That is only partly true. We are talking about the US Army, the main power of freedom and democracy. The army that went inot Iraq to bring peace, freedom and a better life to the people of Iraq. The army sent by politcians, because Saddam was breaking human rights.

This army is now turning out to be not better then any of Saddam´s thugs.

If regular soldiers are behaving that way, I really don´t wanna know how other agencies and private contractors are working their prisoners.

Hey guys wake up!!!!
We talk about war here!! This is not a gentle picknic. There are people killed, there are people tortured ,mutilated , raped from both sides by both sides.
Only hollywood shows good guys vs bad guys. Here we talk about the real world of a naughty as most of them are.
Those kind of pictures/news shouldn’t surprise anybody since ALL the armies of the world did and still do the same.

All of these pictures (apparently) show the abuse of helpless prisoners.

This is sick, wrong and illegal under the terms of the Geneva Convention – to which both the UK and USA are signatories.

Mind you, I wouldn’t give much for the chances of the Brits involved if “Iron Mike” gets his hands on them…….. 😡

Actually, I hope they’re court-martialled and serve their sentence in the Glasshouse at Colchester before their dishonourable discharge.

The Mirror photo’s look to good to be true, by that I mean staged. If they are, I hope the people who took them are given a very long prison sentence.
If they are genuine, then I hope the men in the photos get the same but are dischanged for the Army first.

Paul

Plawolf, many of the soldiers went to Iraq to protect their own countries as many believed that Hussian was an immediate threat (because of Blair). However, if I was in charge of an army and someone refused to do as I said then I would have them thrown out. I think that is fair, and most of them didnt want to get thrown out.

and? how is that any different then the view i already expressed? :confused: