Irish Hawker Hector/Hind

Totally agree with what you said in your last post and thanks for the update on your progress, it is fantastic. Well done .

Thanks Texan and Spitty. It’s extraordinary how much metal work starts with woodwork, whether making casting patterns or forming bucks. The ‘old school’ teaching methods were ‘more tactile and less books’ and seemed to capture a type of personality that might have done poorly in readin n’ rithmetic but soon excelled in working with their hands. In the modern day these kids are punted into plumbing and electrics, hooked by the dollar, but these trades now seem to be about putting preformed lego together. It will end poorly for 20th century aircraft restoration in the next decade, unless the hand skills are taught to a new generation of conventional classroom under achievers, master craftsmen trapped in a system designed for outputting administrators. AI can’t wheel, so it seems like a good career move to learn this, instead of definitions. 

Very nice..Very few tin bashers left in the country that can do complex metal shaping now.

Terrific stuff! 

Progress on the timber buck for Hector engine fairing. The buck runs from the propeller back to the rear of the pilot’s seat. From the pilot’s seat back, the Hector is the same as the Hind or Demon, albeit with a Barr & Stroud mount for the gunner, rather than the usual Scarff Ring. In order to fit the longer Dagger engine in place of the Kestrel, the main fuel tank was shortened, firewall tilted vertically and pushed back towards the pilot. Therefore everything forward of the pilot’s backrest is different to the Hind. With the original fuselage, firewall, engine bearers, exhaust and Dagger core, the key lofting lines have been established in the timber buck, to form the backbone. From here, the buck will be infilled to aid the progressive wheeling of panels. The most complex wheeling is immediately behind the propeller, composed of intake ducts and nose fairing. 

Merci AA, and, of course, the Napier Dagger thread : 

https://www.key.aero/forum/historic-aviation/napier-dagger-engine?page=0

Please don’t forget that, a few years ago, there were two extensive threads, concerning the Cloughjordan Hector (and the other aeroplanes at the sawmill), on this forum. They are:

https://www.key.aero/forum/historic-aviation/122492-hawker-hector-avro-cadet-simmonds-spartan-the-legacy-of-cloughjordan-sawmill

https://www.key.aero/forum/historic-aviation/145759-hawker-hector-iahc-004

Graham, thank you, great to piece all the parts of this story together, with first person recollections, including the story of the b*mb releases. My understanding is that the Cloughjordan Hector came from N. Ireland, ex RAF, and the identity was unknown. The identities of IAC Hectors, within a smaller dataset, are easier to pin. For IAC 88, remarkably, there is the original Westland dataplate AND logbook. For IAC90, there is a fitter’s cursive, in paint, on the firewall. I understand there are photos of the recovery of these airframes, buried as shoring to a riverwall behind the scrappies yard. I attach a photo of the Westland dataplate, which, unlike other Hart types, was attached to the timber decking on the right hand side of the pilot, rather than to the lower left of the cockpit panel. How do we know this? An enterprising local youth, passing the Hectors, jemmied the dataplate off, back in the day, when the glint of brass caught his eye. As a slow moving adult, hearing of the recovery of the Hectors, he handed his booty in, so winning favour with the Goddess of History, allowing a remarkable reunification. The Westland dataplates, being Westland, are different to the look of Hawker dataplates, which are consistent even where contract manufacturers like AV Roe and Bristols output Hart types. It is a fine thing that this dataplate for IAC 88 and associated airframe have survived, and remain to tell the IAC story, in Ireland. Bits and pieces of restoration material will come back from Australia to add to IAC 88, as they are wrought, sure as a sunburned Dubliner returns from Bondi Beach. 

Thanks Sopwith, will keep updates flowing. There is limited newsreel footage on youtube showing RAF Army Co-op exercises with Daggers in ‘full roar’. A 24 cylinder engine at 4,000rpm sounds like a mix of tyrannosaurus and Merlin, so would be a remarkable thing to see flying, indeed. 

Thanks powerandpassion, good luck with all the parts you’re after especially engine ones, it would be great to see a Hector and even better to see an airworthy one. 

I remember the Hector at Cloughjordan well, but its identity has always remained a mystery, unless you know better. I’d like to see evidence for the identities of 88 and 90 – has anyone ever seen photographs of them at the Dundrum scrappers? It wasn’t on my radar in the 1960s.

Regarding the bomb release. I removed the one in the Cloughjordan Hector at the instigation of Albert Clarke, the owner, in other words with permission.  I held it until the 1980s when I gave it to Tim Moore, but he didn’t refit it to the Hawker fuselage of K8203 (Demon) as it wasn’t  needed. The rest of the Cloughjordan Hector frame, i.e. the forward fuselage excepting engine mounts was, I understand, used. Hopefully Tim may still have the bomb release.

Also at Cloughjordan were at least two wings – where they went to I don’t know, or whether they went into K8203 or not.

Graham 

Too early to say, Sopwith. Deciding that question is really all about the powerplant. At this stage, work proceeds on engine fairing, which is work enough. All done to airworthy standard, so not precluding any future pathway. Structurally, the aircraft is the same as other members of the Hart family, so not impossible to return to flight. At the beginning of this journey, even finding Hector remains seemed utterly impossible, so who knows where the journey can end. Certainly finding Dagger engine parts would help immensely. Small things help. I have never come across mechanical b*mb release levers, in the upper left corner of the cockpit panel, which would help complete the cockpit. 

That’s exciting news, is the intention for it to be a static or flying rebuild?

This is IAC90, a remarkable set of remains, the product of kind support from the Napier Power Heritage Trust, the trust of Irish custodians, Australian funds and energy and an endless search for drawings, photos and pieces of jigsaw. The Hector first appears as the uglier brunette next to the Hind blonde, but she grows on you. It was a remarkable achievement to blend the Dagger into the space for the Kestrel, resulting in a biplane that could pull two Hotspur gliders in the air, while having an overlooked combat history dive bombing Panzers over Calais, in the darkest moment of the darkest hour. I will try and post updates as the buckwork progresses, and the unusual  chin emerges in aluminium. 

A start is being made on a timber forming buck for Hector IAC90, with engine bearers coming from the remains incorporated into Demon G-BTVE. Two IAC Hectors exist, IAC88 in Ireland and IAC90 in Australia. The timber warren truss section is based on the fuselage remains of IAC90, so is dimensionally correct, albeit looking like a sheep crush. There is a Dagger engine with this project, where the combination of fuselage with firewall, engine bearers, Dagger, exhaust manifold, Potts oil cooler, GA drawings, hundreds of photos and skilled wheeling can allow the engine fairing lines to be resolved. In simple terms, it’s Cessna 152 engine fairing turned sideways, with a 24 cylinder engine. 

Hi,

That’s a pity. It would have been nice to see a restored Hector, but as I don’t know how much of the airframe was recovered, at least it’s being used for something.

According to Wrecks and Relics 19,the Cloughjordan Hector remains have been/are being incorporated into the restoration of Hawker Demon K8203/G-BTVE at Skysport Engineering.The aircraft is owned by Demon Displays and work is apparently well advanced.
Hope this is of interest 🙂

Hi Tony,

Thanks. This is about as much as I’ve been able to find out about these aircraft parts, very secretive.

Alex

Irish Hawker Hector/Hind

Hi Alex,
I believe that it was two Hectors recovered. One in very bad condition, the other is believed to be the fuselage of K8130 Irish Air Corps serial 88. I understand that work progresses at a slow rate at an undisclosed location. 88 was damaged landing on 3 September 1942 at Rathduff Co. Tipperary and after temporary repairs on site it was flown back to Baldonnel on 11 September and then WFU.
HTH regards,
Tony Kearns