Is aviation boring?

I don’t know if it still applies but I remember being able to buy day membership to the PFA to get airside at the PFA Rally. I know it is the LAA now but I haven’t visited for a good few years.
I also remember having fairly harsh words at one of them with a “gent” with his very young son who wandered up to a Tiger Moth and began to try swinging the prop even though he had nothing to do with the aeroplane.
He initially told me to mind my own business but having explained the possible danger to himself and others he just swore at me and walked away. – nice man!

The Moth Rally at Woburn used to have that feel to it too!

Yes it did, and the nanny state worries about the possibility of somthing happening to a member of the public put paid to that:(

The Moth Rally at Woburn used to have that feel to it too!

I tend to view them as a country picnic with aeroplanes, rather than a display.
Lovely all the same, and a decent closeness to the curving flightline Moggy

I think that sums up Old Warden perfectly and long may it stay that way.

I.M.H.O. I don’t think you can compare motor racing ie F1 with airshows when it comes to safety of the general public, . Lincoln .7

I think there are many comparisons in that both are events where there is some danger to the public in the event of an accident and both aviation and motorsport have gone way over the top on what are called Health and Safety measures. Both have now put the public so far away from the action that I no longer feel involved.

“A jet at an airshow is possibly travelling at several times the max of a F1 car. If these fly by wire suffer a failure, they can go anyway they wish, they are not programmed to automaticaly fly away from the crowds.”

A good deal of the debris from a car or an aircraft tends to travel in the same direction as the vehicle was travelling when the accident started so there is a case for ensuring that aircraft don’t fly over or towards the crowd during manouvres. There is also a case for high debris fencing at points of highest risk on race circuits BUT in my view there is no case for putting the crowd so far away from the action that you have covered EVERY risk no matter how small and there is no case for putting motor racing inside a continuous wire netting cage.

“Even the wheels of the F1 cars are wired into the bodyworks at some point or other so they cannot fly off into the crowd.”

Please don’t kid yourself that F1 cars don’t shed large parts in the event of an accident. The wheel restraints work to an extent but the G forces in any high speed accident are such that the wheel tethers can and do break on occassions. A spinning car will shed parts in all directions so it poses no less a danger than an out of control aircraft. They can never be 100% safe. There have been occassions when cars have gone over the highest debris fence. At Donnington in the 90’s there was an incident where a touring car cleared the fence so it doesn’t have to be an open wheeled car.

“It’s a shame Senna had to die prior to more priority being given to safety.”

Senna’s death had little to do with a lack of safety in F1 at that time. It was more to do with a set of circumstances which combined to cause his death. A bump in the track is said to have lifted the car wheels off the ground causing the initial loss of control. Others had hit that bump many times with no problem so wrong place at the wrong time. Some of the debris from the car is supposed to have penetrated his crash helmet and no amount of safety measures can ever prevent such a freak occurence.
Senna’s death was exceptionally high profile because by that time it was very unusual for F1 drivers to die in an accident mainly because safety had improved hugely since the 60’s and 70’s mainly due to the efforts of Jackie Stewart and others.
There is also another arguement that modern F1 drivers are more prepared to risk an accident rather than concede a corner because the cars are allegedly so safe now that the risk of SERIOUS injury is minimal.

Not being one to take photographs of airshows it has never been an issue for me, but I can see how it would be.

Personally I never wander far from the car at the OW twilight shows, other than a quick visit to the tower. I tend to view them as a country picnic with aeroplanes, rather than a display.

Lovely all the same, and a decent closeness to the curving flightline

Moggy

Patently you have never been to Old Warden then? Moggy

Old Warden is the one place I do still go on a regular basis. I love the atmosphere. The only minor complaint is that you have to dodge all the speaker poles when taking photos but there isn’t a great deal that the collection can do to get round that problem.

I must admit that one of the reasons I don’t go to airshows anymore is because the display line is so far from the crowd.

Patently you have never been to Old Warden then?

Moggy

I.M.H.O. I don’t think you can compare motor racing ie F1 with airshows when it comes to safety of the general public, All F1 cars do not disintergrate as they once used to’ so large items don’t go flying into the crowd, plus the crash barriers are very high. A jet at an airshow is possibly travelling at several times the max of a F1 car. If these fly by wire suffer a failure, they can go anyway they wish, they are not programmed to automaticaly fly away from the crowds.Even the wheels of the F1 cars are wired into the bodyworks at some point or other so they cannot fly off into the crowd. It’s a shame Senna had to die prior to more priority being given to safety.

Lincoln .7

I must admit that one of the reasons I don’t go to airshows anymore is because the display line is so far from the crowd. It was entirely sensible to manage the dangers with simple measures such as banning aircraft from actually flying over the crowd during their display but the aircraft are now so far away from the crowd line that much of the atmosphere is lost.
By the same token most motor racing circuits now have huge debris fences all the way round, even in places where the likelihood of an accident and associated debris is almost nil. One of the reasons fo going to motorsport events was to take photos – something which is impossible now so I keep my money on my pocket and stay away because the health and safety police have all but ruined my day out by forcing me to watch my motorpsort from the outside of a cage.
I accept that none of us want to get killed or injured and equally I don’t want to see participants get killed or injured but we should all be prepared to accept that attending motorsport and aviation events carries some risk and the nanny state really does need to back down a little on some aspects of Health and Safety.

Could it also be deemed “boring” as so many air forces use the same equipment – how many times can you sit and watch an F-16 display(?) – there is no variety any more. (Which is a key point as to why I don’t go to big airshows anymore)

Many aircraft just look like the next one.

Can’t understand why more women dont get interested in all things plane related? It is a 150% fascinating subject.

I suppose it is the H & S brigade that have put the mockers on things for the public. Bring back the 1960’s !

” Is aviation boring? “

My wife and daughters think so.

Chris

Bring back the good old Turbo, that went bang so frequently.

Lincoln .7 😉

it is interesting to note though that after the 1955 le mans disaster ( very much on the same scale and type as the dh 110 disaster )

that not much changed in motor racing horrendous safety breaches were being broken even two decades later as the 1975 spanish f1 gp proved

Race summaryRight from the start, the drivers who were members of the Grand Prix Drivers Association were furious that the barriers weren’t bolted together properly. Thus, they went on strike. Most of the sport’s major players refused to take part in practice. Jacky Ickx was not a member of the GPDA, and one of the few marquee drivers who did practice.

Track staff worked overnight to fix the barriers, and to make sure everything would be fixed in time for qualifying on Saturday, some of the teams sent out mechanics to help. The drivers, though, still weren’t convinced, but the race organizers threatened legal action if no race was run. This, and rumors that the Guardia Civil would seize the cars which were in the Estadi Olímpic Lluís Companys stadium that served as paddock, forced the drivers to call off the strike.

The defending World Champion Emerson Fittipaldi, however, was still furious. He did the minimum three laps, but at a very slow pace, then pulled into the pits. The next morning, Fittipaldi announced he wouldn’t run, and went back home. Also during race day morning, Ken Tyrrell went out onto the circuit with his spanner to make sure the barriers were how they should be.

The two Ferraris of Niki Lauda (on pole) and Clay Regazzoni qualified on the front row, but their glory wouldn’t last long. At the start, Vittorio Brambilla’s March tangled with Mario Andretti’s Parnelli. Andretti’s car hit the back of Lauda’s, sending him into Regazzoni. Lauda was out immediately, while Regazzoni took his car to the garage, where repairs were made, and Regazzoni was sent back out. Patrick Depailler also retired on the first lap because of suspension damage, and Wilson Fittipaldi and Arturo Merzario withdrew in protest.

After the first-corner madness ceased, James Hunt was shown as the leader. Shockingly, Andretti had managed to keep going, and was running in second. John Watson was in third, Rolf Stommelen was fourth, Brambilla fifth, and Carlos Pace sixth.

On lap four, the engine in Jody Scheckter’s Tyrrell blew, and the oil dumping onto the circuit caused Alan Jones and Mark Donohue to crash. Three laps later, Hunt also slipped in the oil and crashed. The top three had become Andretti, Watson, and Stommelen. Watson’s car suffered from vibrations and dropped out. Andretti’s rear suspension lasted only seven more laps before it failed, causing him to crash out of the lead. Jean-Pierre Jarier and Brambilla stopped to change tyres, whilst Tom Pryce and Tony Brise tangled. Stommelen was now in the top spot, followed by Pace, Ronnie Peterson, Jochen Mass, and Ickx. On lap 24, Peterson was out after he tangled with François Migault while trying to lap the Frenchman.

Two laps later, tragedy struck. The rear wing on Stommelen’s Embassy Hill-Lola broke, sending him into the barrier, ironically at the point that his own mechanics had worked on. He bounced off it and back into the road, hitting the barrier across the way, and flying over it. While trying to avoid Stommelen as he crossed the track, Pace crashed. Five by-standers were killed by Stommelen’s flying car with the driver suffering a broken leg, a broken wrist and two cracked ribs.

The race continued for four laps, during which Mass passed Ickx for the lead. On lap 29, the race was called with Mass the winner, Ickx second, and Carlos Reutemann rounded out the podium. Jean-Pierre Jarier finished fourth, Brambilla fifth, and Lella Lombardi took sixth. Because the race only lasted half its distance, only half points were awarded.

it is of course unfortunate that such things happen but as a rational human being when i went to watch speedway every week

i accepted the consequences of the signs that said ” motor racing is a dangerous sport , we take no responsibility for injury “

i’d rather be back in the world were things were fun because they were dangerous

i have a big enough IQ of my own to reccognise dangers and that if the worst comes to the worst several tons of aircraft hitting me .. well at the very least it is going to smart a little !!

Without doubt it has just as it has in all walks of life. But it is here to stay in one guise or another so those great days you looked at are gone forever, I fear. I recall airshows being more exciting because we used to be nearer the action, in every sense of the word. Safety is very important but as a spectator you accept that you are attending an event at which there could be a serious accident, just as in motorsport.

I may have forgotten bits on what I am going to say, but here goes, I well remember Farnborough, when John Derry, flying the DH 110 exploded and large lumps flew into the crowded front line. I would never want to hear the screams and shouts and utter confusion again.
For once, I heartily endorse Health and Safety we now have at airshows, and as Sky High has stated, it was nice whilst it lasted.
Lincoln .7

Yes but it would still be nice to see them hanging upside down from the underside of the a/c whilst doing their nails or playing a violin.

That’s a thought for Andre Rieu’s next tour! 🙂

Interestingly, where there is only a short transit between airshows the main wing-walking team girls ride in the harness.

Moggy

wonder if one of the perks is being allowed to take the work equipment home in the evenings ???:diablo:

Interestingly, where there is only a short transit between airshows the main wing-walking team girls ride in the harness.

For longer transits they unstrap and climb down into the cockpit – but this out of sight of the audience.

Moggy

They also unstrap from the harness during the display and sit on the leading edge of the wing. Another time they stand on the fuselage while holding one leg out rearwards, which must be quite distracting for the pilot. :p

Fair play to them. I don’t think I could stand on a wing let alone clamber around the outside of an old biplane in flight. 😮

Interestingly, where there is only a short transit between airshows the main wing-walking team girls ride in the harness.

For longer transits they unstrap and climb down into the cockpit – but this out of sight of the audience.

Moggy

Yes but it would still be nice to see them hanging upside down from the underside of the a/c whilst doing their nails or playing a violin.