Is it true?????

Read up on psychology used in warfare, especially the parts relating to getting your guys to kill the other guys. It’s not in human nature to kill (sociopaths excepted etc) & it’s been found that when the officer/authority figure isn’t present, the rate of fire towards to the other side drops off quite significantly.

Creaking door,

I agree with your sentiments entirely. I was just trying to convey a scene from a recent ish conflict where no prisoners were going to be taken. I was challenged on the matter and I have said what I can and will now have to leave it at that. Its not for me to tell the full story as I was not there on the ground to witness it. My NCO was a very open honest man. He loved the army and only wanted his new recruits to fully understand what the were getting themselves into. He was a man I admired very much and would trust him 100% without hesitation as I would the other NCO and our officer but him more than anyone.

I did see the pictures of the events.
I did get told the story.
I have no doubt about its authenticity.
I was not on the ground when it happened.

BUT

I never ever had any reason to doubt what I was being told and I still dont.

I am not asking anyone to believe what I have said and asking for proof isnt going to get any other than the information I have given above.

I suppose the same could be said for all the Red Baron and Douglas Bader stories out there how can you believe any of them. 1 person remembers 1 thing and another remembers it a little different but the evidence say something else.

And no you will never see proof. So perhaps now its time to simply forget this story.

Lets just remember those who died and gave their lives for their respective countries.

I know of one documented incident that happened during the Falklands War. Argentine POWs were being used dismantle an ammunition-dump (at Goose Green?) that contained napalm bombs; it seems that the dump had been booby-trapped (or there was an accident) and some of the napalm ignited. One of the Argentine POWs was trapped in the burning napalm and a British soldier shot him in an act of mercy.

There was another incident on South Georgia when the Royal Navy were attempting to move the stricken Argentine submarine ‘Santa Fe’. The original Argentine crew of the submarine had volunteered to assist in the move under Royal Marine guard but during the move an order reached an Argentine crewmember without a translation in English; fearful that the submarine was being scuttled the Marine shot the Argentine crewmember dead.

I for one do not believe that British forces are always ‘whiter-than-white’ but I hope at least that the wars Britain chooses (or is forced) to engage-in can be considered ‘just wars’ although that is a difficult call at the best of times (and has been impossible recently).

Personally I tend not to believe the stories told to new recruits or repeated in pubs; it is nothing personal, and in fact that is part of the reason, because I wasn’t even there to hear the story, rumour or whatever, to make my own judgement about its believability.

I am not saying that these things didn’t happen, after all, the battlefield can be a big lonely place, and most of the land-battles during the Falklands took place in the dark also; there would have been ample opportunity and it is difficult to comprehend feelings (and actions) of those who have been engaged in combat. However, having said that, I would want to see some ‘evidence’ before I change my opinion (and I fully appreciate that I am unlikely to ever see such evidence).

I remember very well getting VERY drunk in the pub when 2 para returned after Falklands 1.
They said at the time that American mercenaries were among the captured.

If so, what happened to them?
Considering the closeness between Thatcher and Reagan at the time I’m sure they would have faced US charges….being a mercenary was/is against the law.
Or more to the point, after all these years I’d have thought someone would have cashed-in with a book…

Nope not him.

I admit to having to look up that name though as I wasnt sure who you meant. But I can state that it certainly wasnt him.

Why is it people have such a hard time thinking that our troops arent anything other than whiter than white.

I stand by my statement.

Great!!!!!!!!!!!!! I needed a laugh this morning!:D

[I] did hear of it first hand from an NCO that I was being trained by. As I said other than that I will not comment further.

Oh and one more thing I know this was true while we were told this because he was very open and honest about what his troops were getting themselves into. That and we were shown the photographs. Images no worse than what you would see on TV today but images of the dead bodies anyhow.

Hope Jack Livesey wasn’t the NCO! 😀

I remember very well getting VERY drunk in the pub when 2 para returned after Falklands 1.
They said at the time that American mercenaries were among the captured.

Taking the conversation a little broader, certain anti-A/c missiles do not go up the engine as Hollywood lets you think, but are designed to offset the explosion when over the nice soft canopy. This ensures a kill, rather than risk it (A £250k asset) going bang against a large piece of Engine Titanium, or the pilots “Bath” in some machines.
So, “Take that you bounder” has long gone in terms of weaponry but may still exist at people level in a War in which we respect the enemy. Present enemies, no chance…”off ’em and let Pigs crunch the evidence IMO”.

There are combat reports from 1940 that speak of pilots flying with the RAF deliberately shooting at German pilots, and another I have where the pilot deliberates over whether or not to shoot up a dinghy with four men in it.

Not sure if this has already been mentioned or not, but in his book
“Fly for your lives”, Stanford Tuck admits to shooting at a German airman
coming down in his parachute.

As did a USAAF Mustang pilot in a TV documentary. After seeing the German
killing US airmen in their chutes.

And one other thing for you Paul. I certainly am not trying to drag the name of anyone through the mud. Dont make that mistake in assuming that I am.

No Paul,

I did not see this happen first hand as I am too young to have taken part in the conflict but I did hear of it first hand from an NCO that I was being trained by. As I said other than that I will not comment further.

Oh and one more thing I know this was true while we were told this because he was very open and honest about what his troops were getting themselves into. That and we were shown the photographs. Images no worse than what you would see on TV today but images of the dead bodies anyhow.

Is that enough of a put up for you Paul?

Saying anything else would have to name names and troops and I wont go that far.

Trust me paul I tell no lies. It did happen.

This may surprise some of you but I know of at least 1 case of this personally that happened during the Falklands.

I will not comment futher than just to say an enemy soldier was shot by a British Para having given himself up.

They did not take prisoners.

So you saw this with your own eyes then? Don’t cop out with I will not comment further.
If you have evidence of this take it to the authorities.

Again the old chestnuts keep coming up

‘H’ Jones was shot in the back deliberately by his own men is another.

American mercenaries fought alongside the Argie’s is another.

Put up or shut up. This is my old Regiment who’s name you are trying to drag in the mud.

No I had left before the Falklands so I don’t comment on the accuracy of heresay!

There was no need to write it down. It is a part of being a paratrooper that was universally understood.

Moggy

It is a little publicised fact that paratroops generally are unable to take prisoners.

In the book ‘Band of Brothers’ there is a first-hand account of US paratroops from the 506th PIR being told by their regimental commander (Colonel Sink?) on the eve of D-Day to ‘fight with knives until daylight and not to take any prisoners’. I’m not sure if this constitutes an official order and I doubt if it would ever have been written down.

…say we were going to war against, say for example the Germans again, I think both the leaders of each Country be given all the weapons they wanted…..and told to get on with it, and winner takes all. Just think of all the saving of lives…

I have a better idea for those in government who have sent British forces poorly-equipped into the latest round of conflicts…

…the sons or daughters of all those making key decisions, especially the defence ministers, should be in the thick of the fighting. They do not actually have to fight (they may be too young and untrained) but they should definitely be put in harm’s way!

I wonder if British men and women would still be dying in Afghanistan had the children of Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and David Cameron been permanent passengers on a succession of Nimrod, Hercules and Chinook flights!

B17 I meant. B17 LoL. I had just been on Wiki looking for a B29 picture for summat else.

It’s been posted on here lots, but……
http://www.ww2f.com/air-war-western-europe-1939-1945/39582-stricken-b-17-guided-home-bf-109-pilot.html

Thanks for that PeeDee, I thought the B29 was a bit off which was one of the reasons i enquired about the story. Nothing suprises me about things that happened in WW2 so it could have been true !!.

The actual tale 109 escorts B17 is an amazing tale and proves that war is not black and white , good guy bad guy.

It is a little publicised fact that paratroops generally are unable to take prisoners. This applied for both sides in WW2.

Surrendering to a Fallschirmjäger or Red Beret was not a recipe for a long and happy life.

Moggy

This may surprise some of you but I know of at least 1 case of this personally that happened during the Falklands.

I will not comment futher than just to say an enemy soldier was shot by a British Para having given himself up.

They did not take prisoners.

PeeDee, Would you care to enlighten me regarding the episode relating to the 109 and the Boeing B?? please.

Jim.

Lincoln .7

Yes please do.

Beejay

L.O.L. Moggs, Split my sides laughing at your suggestion, I too can picture it, but seriously, just think of all the innocent lives it would save.:)
Jim.

Lincoln .7