Is there a future for hydrogen (Water) fuelled cars?

Phaa… Your all barking up the wrong tree, this is the way… 😉

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmqpGZv0YT4

Isn’t the problem with hydrogen that it makes a good fuel because it oxidises so readily and that to reverse that process you must put energy in, even if the process you use is biological. Whatever the biological process used it will surely need ‘food’ to turn into hydrogen plus ‘food’ to power the process and all the ‘food’ that goes in will have greater energy than the hydrogen that comes out (but potentially in a less useful form such as compost or food waste)?

A good analogy for ‘fuelling’ cars on water would be like trying to keep warm with a fire that burns ash and smoke! 😀

I was thinking about the tax / duty implications of manufacturing your own hydrogen fuel from solar, biological or wind (pun intended) power, and I thought surely the government could have no right to apply tax / duty if the hydrogen was for your own consumption and you were not selling any. Then I thought about manufacturing alcohol as a fuel because you can manufacture that quite easily at home.

Then I thought of the tax / duty consideration of making alcohol yourself…..oh dear! 🙁

basically some form of bug or enzyme that eats something we don’t want and farts out hydrogen.

(You will understand I hope that though I phrase it flippantly, the idea of such generation of hydrogen is actively under consideration.)

Moggy

Hey then our wonderful government can tax the Ar5e off either the bugs or the fart (or most likely both !!;) )

cheers baz

Then, the oil cartel will buy the patent and we’ll never see it again. Like the ever lasting battery – invented in 1949 wasn’t it? The patent lies in a vault in (I think but don’t quote me) Ever Ready HQ. Or whatever Ever Ready are called these days.

The paperwork for the patent may lie in a vault, though I doubt it. Nevertheless, if such a thing existed then a copy of the patent is viewable to anyone who wishes to see it through the patent office.

I fear the perpetual motion battery is just another of those legends like the eversharp razor blade and the non-laddering stockings, each of which is alleged to have been suppressed by the appropriate vested interest.

Urban myth, nothing more.

About hydrogen for power derived from non-polluting sources.

Currently huge chunks of electricity are used in the process, much of which is generated from oil, so the oil producers have no need to start panicking yet.

Solar power may be an option, but the leading edge of research is more concerned with biological production of the hydrogen, basically some form of bug or enzyme that eats something we don’t want and farts out hydrogen.

(You will understand I hope that though I phrase it flippantly, the idea of such generation of hydrogen is actively under consideration.)

Moggy

The one real breakthrough in one of the articles could be the manufacture of hydrogen (from H2O) from solar-power. This would be zero-emission and free! Well, except for the water and any tax / duty the chancellor may add (at 85%).

Exactly and it will not be a ‘may’ it will be a ‘cert’,the uk has too many financial ‘black holes’ to fill…. the most obviously wasteful one being our ‘contribution’ to europe,the whole thing is an absolute disgrace.
I probably would not mind a ‘green’ tax so much if any of the revenue actually was used for bona fide reasons but most is wasted by our ‘snouts in the trough’ politicians .

cheers baz

Oh and P.S as most are aware…our contribution to worldwide pollution is miniscule,other countries are chucking out much more crap than we ever could 😉

The Honda jobbie looks very promising…

There are another two articles from the BBC here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7497992.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7507795.stm

Significantly though these vehicles are hydrogen-fuelled not ‘water-fuelled’.

Neither of these vehicles is zero emission because (like electric vehicles) fossil-fuelled power stations are the actual source of their power. The one real breakthrough in one of the articles could be the manufacture of hydrogen (from H2O) from solar-power. This would be zero-emission and free! Well, except for the water and any tax / duty the chancellor may add (at 85%).

The Honda jobbie looks very promising…

One thing we can be sure of … if water becomes a fuel then ‘Grabbing Gordon’ will tax the A55 off it 😀 😀 😀

He will be long-gone out of office before that happens.
We hope.

One thing we can be sure of … if water becomes a fuel then ‘Grabbing Gordon’ will tax the A55 off it 😀 😀 😀

cheers baz

Do I really come across as pedantic? Oh dear. 😮

Don’t panic! It takes one to recognise one. 😎

Gotcha Creaking Door!

2xH and 1xO – not the other way round! 😉

It’s a fair cop! Chemistry was never my thing. 🙁

Are you that pedantic chap who’s not all that impressed with the language skills of “pimply yoof” in this day and age?

Do I really come across as pedantic? Oh dear. 😮

I understand water is H2O but how do we get the H separated from the 2O?

Gotcha Creaking Door! Are you that pedantic chap who’s not all that impressed with the language skills of “pimply yoof” in this day and age?

2xH and 1xO – not the other way round! 😉

Pedantry aside, I fully agree with your train of thought on this one. But the sooner we can stop buring oil in our engines and leave it aside for lubrication and higher end uses the better!

cheers D

This is the current state-of-the-art fuel-cell car:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7456141.stm

I think people are confusing reality with the fiction of the ‘water engine’ which has spawned urban-myths, conspiracy theories, fraudulent claims and hoaxes in addition to being the basis for plays, a radio show and a fairly recent TV movie.

Yes, probably. But sometimes fiction becomes reality.

My water engine is steam, a small nuclear power plant boils it. There is a small flaw though……

If the concept works, I’m sure somebody will get funding to prove it can be done in a car. Then, the oil cartel will buy the patent and we’ll never see it again.

This is the current state-of-the-art fuel-cell car:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7456141.stm

I think people are confusing reality with the fiction of the ‘water engine’ which has spawned urban-myths, conspiracy theories, fraudulent claims and hoaxes in addition to being the basis for plays, a radio show and a fairly recent TV movie.

If the concept works, I’m sure somebody will (Now) get funding to prove it can be done in a car. Then, the oil cartel will buy the patent and we’ll never see it again. Like the ever lasting battery – invented in 1949 wasn’t it? The patent lies in a vault in (I think but don’t quote me) Ever Ready HQ. Or whatever Ever Ready are called these days.

And, who will fund the Osmosis power plant engine? A large tube of freshwater dropped in the sea. The tube is the membrane, the process will force the column of water in the tube upwards, thus giving great pressure which can be harnessed. Last time I did a fag-packet calculation, the tube needs to be 100 metres diameter and 500 metres deep. erm, to coin a phrase….”We’re going to need a bigger boat”.
Oh, and to fill the tube with fresh water needs a large pump, using electric from some other source.

My point being that only money prevents the ideas working.
If we had a cold war again, and Russia declared “That within one decade we will supply the world with almost free electricity” I’m sure a large body like NASA would be formed and trillions of research money would be found.
But there isn’t, and it probably wont.

You are quite correct, fuel cell technology is proven mature technology; it works!

The problem with this technology is that although there are huge supplies of water occurring naturally there are almost no supplies of hydrogen occurring naturally.

Ask yourself this ‘how do I get the hydrogen out of the water?’ :confused:

It’s something called fuel cell conversion, where hydrogen is reacted with oxygen to produce water and electricity. The Hydrogen basically is like a Battery it carries. When the oxygen is mixed with hydrogen it’s electrical energy is used to power a motor.

Hydrogen and Oxygen is Water, hence H20.

There is a difference between a car powered by a hydrogen fuel cell and a ‘water fuelled’ car. One is a reality the other is fiction.

Have I missed something?

Since when has it been economically feasible to run cars on hydrogen (or even possible to run them on water)? And yes, I understand water is H2O but how do we get the H separated from the 2O?

I may be wrong but I think thats where the almighty “fuel cell” comes in to play….

…oil companies are not going to like it, the last thing they want is cars run on water.

Have I missed something?

Since when has it been economically feasible to run cars on hydrogen (or even possible to run them on water)? And yes, I understand water is H2O but how do we get the H separated from the 2O?

This is been in the media spotlight quite recently, it all seems jolly exciting, but is there a future for it?

I don’t there will, as oil companies are not going to like it, the last thing they want is cars run on water. The industry would simply collapse, Oil has great economical importance to countries, maybe the oil companies will buy the plan’s to stop it from developing further, who know’s?

However, petrol/diesel are a low grade oil derivitives with relatively low margin. It’s their bulk that makes it the highly profitable commodity it is. Far more valuable use of oil is as a component in the chemical and pharmaceutical industry. If cars use less petrol/diesel, the long term supply of oil for more lucrative ventures is (better) guaranteed.