Is there any Russian Project for India that does't have a problem????

[QUOTE=Scooter;1372056]

No, more like the original Ferengi……..:eek:

I think that’s only if we’re discussing China and their respect of IP rights.

i seriously doubt, this is the first time we are building a carrier so challenge is huge, it would a gr8 achievement is we did that around 2015, but even that for me is optimistic. PSU Shipyards are highly inefficient in timelines as compared to foreign orders Navy has placed. how many years we afford depends on how many years Viraat can run. the problem could be that Viraat may spend more time in dock than in waters. it already is 50 yrs old, sea harriers even thought upgraded are very small in numbers due to attrition. Sea harriers subsonic speed would be a disadvantage in BVR.

The IAC’s will be a great credit to the Indian Nation and especially its Navy. Only being surpassed by the much larger USN Nimitz and RN CVF’s Class Carriers.:D

IMHO:cool:

Scooter, isn’t the discussion going completely out of topic. i mean from 21 Century IN Plans of carrier to who contributed more in world war 2

Point well taken…………….Easy to get off track sometimes!:(

Sorry, I have to disagreed on a couple of points. Especially, in Europe as it was a Allied Victory with many Nations contributing! Also, nobody is playing down Russia’s very important role in the conflict. As a matter of fact Russian People had the highest causality of any nation! Yet, some would like us to believe that 90% of the conflict was on the Eastern Front. Remember, the campaigns in North Africa, Italy, and France. Plus, lets also not forget the Naval and Air Campaigns of the West. Really, you could say the Russian Army tied down large numbers of troops in the East and the Western Allies tied down large numbers of Naval, Air Forces, and Elite Army Units in the West. Regardless, all played a large part in the overall Victory over Nazi Germany. To be honest every one played a large part. Saying the US or Russia was the main player is a insult to the majority that also suffered greatly! For example during the D-Day Landings. Half the troops were US. Yet, the other half were British and Canadians……..along with smaller numbers of Free French and other Allied Nations. On the other hand the early Victory’s in North Africa. Were mainly British and Commonwealth Nations………..

As for the Pacific Theater is was a mostly a US Conflict in the Central Pacific. But, the Australians, New Zeelanders, and British played a large part. Especially, in the South West Pacific, India, China, and Burma. As a matter of fact Indian Troops played a very large and important part too!

Personally, I think its unfair for any one side to claim victory. While, some had larger parts. (i.e. Russia in Manpower and US in Equipment) Everyone played a substantial part in the overall victory…………..In many cases even the loss of the small part could have meant defeat!

Scooter, isn’t the discussion going completely out of topic. i mean from 21 Century IN Plans of carrier to who contributed more in world war 2

That is unlikely to change with a different government in power as well. I think the IAC will be delivered without further delays, the C.S have an excellent reputation building commercial ships on time. Well we can afford a few more years if need be. 😉

i seriously doubt, this is the first time we are building a carrier so challenge is huge, it would a gr8 achievement is we did that around 2015, but even that for me is optimistic. PSU Shipyards are highly inefficient in timelines as compared to foreign orders Navy has placed. how many years we afford depends on how many years Viraat can run. the problem could be that Viraat may spend more time in dock than in waters. it already is 50 yrs old, sea harriers even thought upgraded are very small in numbers due to attrition. Sea harriers subsonic speed would be a disadvantage in BVR.

[QUOTE=kfeltenberger;1372014]

I understand it reads better in its original Klingon… :p

No, more like the original Ferengi……..:eek:

[QUOTE=Scooter;1371945]

ahh, another lovely testament of the american ‘great BS’ education , read any book on ww2 by historian whether american or russian , states that 80%-85% of the fascist forces were destroyed in the Eastern front

ok,heres the contribution is here ,

pretty significant contribution , atleast in terms of land battles .

by the way , Atomic bombings was totally unnecessary

The Soviet invasion of the Japanese holdings on China forced the Japanese to sign a surrender lest they not only lose their last formed army but allow their mainland to be invaded by a country that not only had the means but also the willpower to take their island from them.

The war with Japan were over long before that and if the US offered the same terms in June than they did AFTER the dropped the nukes the Japanese would have signed it. Fact is the US administration actually compromised on their initial peace terms to ensure that the Japanese did not surrender to the USSR instead of the US. The nuclear weapons no more ended the war against Japan than the massed strategic bombing campaigns against either Japan and Germany forced them to surrender

Well, like your own source claims the Russian totally overwhelmed the Japanese in numeral superiority. Also, lets not forget that the Japanese Troops in question. Were likely not the best available. As most were returned to Japan to fight the expected US Invasion. Also, while the Russian Invasion was just another nail in the coffin. With the advent of the Atomic Bomb. The War would have been over in short order. So, really its the Russian Invasion that was not needed……..Its also worth noting that Russia to this day has not returned some of the lands it occupied after the Invasion in 1945. Which, is still a extremely touchy point between Russia and Japan to this very day……………..:(

Personally, I really enjoy your take on WWII History. As besides Russia winning the European Conflict almost Singlehandedly. They also were the main cause for Japan Surrender………Clearly, a Russian view with little bases in fact.;)

I understand it reads better in its original Klingon… :p

America fought the Japanese almost single handedly (with an exception with British in the Burmeese campaign). But the European theater was more of a soviet victory.

Sorry, I have to disagreed on a couple of points. Especially, in Europe as it was a Allied Victory with many Nations contributing! Also, nobody is playing down Russia’s very important role in the conflict. As a matter of fact Russian People had the highest causality of any nation! Yet, some would like us to believe that 90% of the conflict was on the Eastern Front. Remember, the campaigns in North Africa, Italy, and France. Plus, lets also not forget the Naval and Air Campaigns of the West. Really, you could say the Russian Army tied down large numbers of troops in the East and the Western Allies tied down large numbers of Naval, Air Forces, and Elite Army Units in the West. Regardless, all played a large part in the overall Victory over Nazi Germany. To be honest every one played a large part. Saying the US or Russia was the main player is a insult to the majority that also suffered greatly! For example during the D-Day Landings. Half the troops were US. Yet, the other half were British and Canadians……..along with smaller numbers of Free French and other Allied Nations. On the other hand the early Victory’s in North Africa. Were mainly British and Commonwealth Nations………..

As for the Pacific Theater is was a mostly a US Conflict in the Central Pacific. But, the Australians, New Zeelanders, and British played a large part. Especially, in the South West Pacific, India, China, and Burma. As a matter of fact Indian Troops played a very large and important part too!

Personally, I think its unfair for any one side to claim victory. While, some had larger parts. (i.e. Russia in Manpower and US in Equipment) Everyone played a substantial part in the overall victory…………..In many cases even the loss of the small part could have meant defeat!

They also were the main cause for Japan Surrender………Clearly, a Russian view with little bases in fact.

America fought the Japanese almost single handedly (with an exception with British in the Burmeese campaign). But the European theater was more of a soviet victory.

[QUOTE=manson_322;1371138]ahh, another lovely testament of the american ‘great BS’ education , read any book on ww2 by historian whether american or russian , states that 80%-85% of the fascist forces were destroyed in the Eastern front

ok,heres the contribution is here ,

pretty significant contribution , atleast in terms of land battles .

by the way , Atomic bombings was totally unnecessary

The Soviet invasion of the Japanese holdings on China forced the Japanese to sign a surrender lest they not only lose their last formed army but allow their mainland to be invaded by a country that not only had the means but also the willpower to take their island from them.

The war with Japan were over long before that and if the US offered the same terms in June than they did AFTER the dropped the nukes the Japanese would have signed it. Fact is the US administration actually compromised on their initial peace terms to ensure that the Japanese did not surrender to the USSR instead of the US. The nuclear weapons no more ended the war against Japan than the massed strategic bombing campaigns against either Japan and Germany forced them to surrender

Well, like your own source claims the Russian totally overwhelmed the Japanese in numeral superiority. Also, lets not forget that the Japanese Troops in question. Were likely not the best available. As most were returned to Japan to fight the expected US Invasion. Also, while the Russian Invasion was just another nail in the coffin. With the advent of the Atomic Bomb. The War would have been over in short order. So, really its the Russian Invasion that was not needed……..Its also worth noting that Russia to this day has not returned some of the lands it occupied after the Invasion in 1945. Which, is still a extremely touchy point between Russia and Japan to this very day……………..:(

Personally, I really enjoy your take on WWII History. As besides Russia winning the European Conflict almost Singlehandedly. They also were the main cause for Japan Surrender………Clearly, a Russian view with little bases in fact.;)

That is unlikely to change with a different government in power as well. I think the IAC will be delivered without further delays, the C.S have an excellent reputation building commercial ships on time. Well we can afford a few more years if need be. 😉

Do we know what level of support that “Finmeccanca” is to provide during the construction of the IAC’s?????:confused:

ahh, another lovely testament of the american ‘great BS’ education , read any book on ww2 by historian whether american or russian , states that 80%-85% of the fascist forces were destroyed in the Eastern front

ok,heres the contribution is here ,

pretty significant contribution , atleast in terms of land battles .

by the way , Atomic bombings was totally unnecessary

The Soviet invasion of the Japanese holdings on China forced the Japanese to sign a surrender lest they not only lose their last formed army but allow their mainland to be invaded by a country that not only had the means but also the willpower to take their island from them.

The war with Japan were over long before that and if the US offered the same terms in June than they did AFTER the dropped the nukes the Japanese would have signed it. Fact is the US administration actually compromised on their initial peace terms to ensure that the Japanese did not surrender to the USSR instead of the US. The nuclear weapons no more ended the war against Japan than the massed strategic bombing campaigns against either Japan and Germany forced them to surrender

WTF??, I[B] don’t live in new zealand , nor I am GarryB , ask the mods to check my IP address , its indian

[/B]

My mistake…………..I STAND CORRECTED!

by the way , Atomic bombings was totally unnecessary

The Soviet invasion of the Japanese holdings on China forced the Japanese to sign a surrender lest they not only lose their last formed army but allow their mainland to be invaded by a country that not only had the means but also the willpower to take their island from them.

The war with Japan were over long before that and if the US offered the same terms in June than they did AFTER the dropped the nukes the Japanese would have signed it. Fact is the US administration actually compromised on their initial peace terms to ensure that the Japanese did not surrender to the USSR instead of the US. The nuclear weapons no more ended the war against Japan than the massed strategic bombing campaigns against either Japan and Germany forced them to surrender

Check the dates. The USSR didn’t declare war until after the dropping of the first atomic bomb, & launched its offensive in Manchuria the following day, the same day as the dropping of the second bomb.

The only change in the terms offered in July was the guarantee of the position of the emperor. All other Japanese requests for changes in terms were refused. Japan nearly didn’t surrender in August, because of an attempted military coup after the decision to surrender – on the terms you say would have been accepted in June. In June, the government was still talking in terms of making peace with Japan keeping hold of much of China, & withdrawing from European & US colonies only on condition they were granted immediate independence. And you think they’d have accepted the August terms!

unlikely that IAC will be delivered ontime. we take so many yrs to build even a frigate.
the problem with Gorshy our adamant Govt will neither cancel the deal or agree with Russian price, Babus will frustrate everyone including russians and navy by bargaining for many years.

That is unlikely to change with a different government in power as well. I think the IAC will be delivered without further delays, the C.S have an excellent reputation building commercial ships on time. Well we can afford a few more years if need be. 😉

For the love of big space men in the sky, can we let this thread die already.

Show must go on 😡

LOL………….that’s the source! Talk about “Communist Propaganda”

How about the Land Campaigns North Africa, Italy, and France? Further, that doesn’t even count the German Losses in Aircraft and Ships. As a matter of fact how many German Submarines were lost to Russian Naval Forces.

Gary, your on the wrong side…………is there a Communist Party in New Zeeland???;)

Personally, I have no problem with giving “Russia” credit but 85%. PLEASE

Let’s also not forget that the Western Allies were fightning the Japanese too! Which, Russia only contributed to during the last few days of the war…..

LOL………….that’s the source! Talk about “Communist Propaganda”

ahh, another lovely testament of the american ‘great BS’ education , read any book on ww2 by historian whether american or russian , states that 80%-85% of the fascist forces were destroyed in the Eastern front

Let’s also not forget that the Western Allies were fightning the Japanese too! Which, Russia only contributed to during the last few days of the war…..

ok,heres the contribution is here ,

At the Yalta Conference in Feb 1945, Joseph Stalin had agreed to end the non-aggression pact with Japan, immediately followed by a declaration of war, three months after Germany would be defeated. On 8 Aug 1945, exactly three months after the German surrender, Russia abided by her promise and invaded Japanese puppet state Manchukuo in northeastern China. The three Russian Armies (Fronts) of the Far Eastern Command was under the overall command of Marshal A. M. Vasilevsky. In the field, Marshal R. Y. Malinovsky commanded the Transbaikal Front, Marshal K. A. Meretskov the 1st Far East Front, and General M. A. Purkayev the 2nd Far East Front. Fielding over 1.5 million men in 80 division with the support of over 5,000 tanks and 4,300 aircraft, the Russian forces completely outnumbered General Otsuzo Yamada’s Kwangtung Army’s 600,000 men in 25 divisions with a 40,000-strong Manchukuo Defense Force in 8 divisions, supported by 1,215 tanks and 1,800 aircraft.
The main invasion came across the Gobi desert, a desolate region that the Japanese did not expect any army to march through. Aside from the numerical superiority, the Russian invasion came at a total surprise to the unprepared Japanese troops in western Manchuria, which was further exploited by the Russian usage of airborne units at key airfields and population center. Within two weeks, major Manchurian cities of Mukden, Changchun and Qiqihar were under Russian control.

While the main invasion came across from the west, the eastern pincer made several amphibious landings on 18 Aug in northern Korea, Sakhalin, and in the Kuril Islands. The northern Korean landing was undeniably military in nature, but the landings made in southern Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands were likely more political in nature, aiming for a long term occupation of Japanese territories.
http://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=167

pretty significant contribution , atleast in terms of land battles .

by the way , Atomic bombings was totally unnecessary

The Soviet invasion of the Japanese holdings on China forced the Japanese to sign a surrender lest they not only lose their last formed army but allow their mainland to be invaded by a country that not only had the means but also the willpower to take their island from them.

The war with Japan were over long before that and if the US offered the same terms in June than they did AFTER the dropped the nukes the Japanese would have signed it. Fact is the US administration actually compromised on their initial peace terms to ensure that the Japanese did not surrender to the USSR instead of the US. The nuclear weapons no more ended the war against Japan than the massed strategic bombing campaigns against either Japan and Germany forced them to surrender

Though most westerners believe the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were the events that drove Japan to surrender, the atomic bombs were actually only part of the equation. Many historians such as Tsuyoshi Hasegawa and Dan van der Vat argue that the Russian declaration were as important, if not more so, in the Japanese decision to capitulate. During the last months of the war, it had been evident that the Japanese, not knowing the Yalta Conference agreement, were seeking Russian assistance as a neutral power to negotiate surrender terms with the western Allies. With the seemingly neutral Russians suddenly changing face and tearing up the non-aggression pact, Japan suddenly lost their last hope, which affected the Japanese psyche tremendously.
http://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=167

Gary, your on the wrong side…………is there a Communist Party in New Zeeland???;)

WTF??, I don’t live in new zealand , nor I am GarryB , ask the mods to check my IP address , its indian

That Mig15-to-F86 kill ratio of 1.3 : 1 is probably closer to the truth, since the Korean War was fought to a draw, with neither side achieving victory.

Today is the Keel Laying of the FIRT IAC. I really hope no further demands of increase in price of Vikramaditya is met and the current Viraat is given a good refit. The harriers onboard it are all upgraded with Elta Radars 🙂 and Israeli missiles.

unlikely that IAC will be delivered ontime. we take so many yrs to build even a frigate.
the problem with Gorshy our adamant Govt will neither cancel the deal or agree with Russian price, Babus will frustrate everyone including russians and navy by bargaining for many years.

For the love of big space men in the sky, can we let this thread die already.

posters ,
as we can see this is proof of good (or should say useless) American education is which is propaganda based , no wonders USA is going to fall like Rome in a matter of time as former comptroller General David Walker stated …

LOL………….that’s the source! Talk about “Communist Propaganda”

How about the Land Campaigns North Africa, Italy, and France? Further, that doesn’t even count the German Losses in Aircraft and Ships. As a matter of fact how many German Submarines were lost to Russian Naval Forces.

Gary, your on the wrong side…………is there a Communist Party in New Zeeland???;)

Personally, I have no problem with giving “Russia” credit but 85%. PLEASE

Let’s also not forget that the Western Allies were fightning the Japanese too! Which, Russia only contributed to during the last few days of the war…..