Is throwing more and more money at the NHS the answer….

I don’t think any of us have even implied we should emulate the US system, have we?

But burying our heads in the sand and throwing endless amounts of cash at the system is not the solution, either. There are plenty of examples around the world of mixed funded systems which work far better and cost a great deal less.

The NHS is not the greatest thing in this country by a long stretch. It is past its sell by date and unfit for purpose in its current form. It WAS once one of the best things about the UK, but that was then and this is now. And something needs to be done.

Please remember……under the American system.

Millions cannot afford any cover what-so-ever.

Pre existing medical problems are usually excluded and cannot be covered (something that also applies to much private health cover in the uk)..

Many peoples insurance will not cover the total costs of medical cases.

For many people in the States any kind of major medical treatment = poverty or financial ruin.

Is that the kind of system you want ?

I worked for a major American company once. During the down turn in 2008 they simply laid off many US based staff, immediately.
Simply a case of sorry guys and girls…..bye…there is a door in the corner. No notice period or consultation, nothing.
For them….no health cover immediately……
Sick the next day….followed by a life (at best) of poverty…….great place….land of the free eh ?

The NHS is the greatest thing in this country. In my opinion tax should be increased to pay for it.

Linc, no one will deny your last comment – a very big problem indeed!

Trek – I don’t pretend to have the solutions but someone with a great deal more knowledge and clout DOES need to find solutions, that’s for sure. Trouble is all anyone ever does is fiddle about around the edges and hoping that more and more cash will be the answer. I can promise you, it won’t!

If we don’t replace Trident, it could well be, that we will need an NHS that’s at least twice its present size.

I am genuinely unsure what you mean by this?
Would the lack of Trident replacement mean a war so more need to treat casualties? If a nuclear war, happened I think it wouldn’t really matter. Or are we going to get invaded?
Would the lack of Trident replacement mean people live longer putting added pressure on the system? Many people might be in favour if they were going to live longer?
Would the lack of Trident replacement mean a doubling of the population? How? Why??

I recon we will go the American way, whereby you have to have Medical Insurance, I have recently been told by a friend over there that the Insurance they had didn’t cover the cost of the Operation they needed. Seems wherever we live, healthcare is a big issue.
Jim

Lincoln .7

And maybe £5 to see a GP, for those not on benefits. And fines for missed GP and hospital appointments.

Which in turn would require a further level of administration as the current system has no method of taking the money/chasing up fines. Who would do this-the surgery/hospital? the local commisioning group? nationally?
Not That I think either are necessarily a bad idea in principle, it is just how it would work in practice?

Having worked in a GP practice, I can assure you the admin staff are working flat out completing the tasks they already have.

In principle Linc, you are quite right. But the point is how the money is spent. How much is wasted on unnecessary administration, chasing arbitrary targets, and simple inefficiencies. As the demand increases inevitably the whole edifice will come tumbling down without serious root and branch reform with some degree of additional contribution. Simply returning to the pre-2000 system of free prescriptions for men at retirement age rather than at 60 would be a start. And maybe £5 to see a GP, for those not on benefits. And fines for missed GP and hospital appointments.

It needs politicians with guts to confront the whole problem and devise long term reform. Simply ring-fencing what is already failing won’t do. Nothing is going to change for you and me but I worry seriously about the medical care my grandchildren can look forward to when they reach retirement.

£1875 each?. The last Op I had at Addenbrooks, had it been done in the USA, would have bankrupted 99% of us. I wouldn’t mind paying £10.00 of my weekly State Pension to keep the NHS afloat. Between July and Nov, I had two cataract Ops, and corrective laser surgery on my right eye. What would that little lot cost in any other Country, then look at my Buddy, Tony T, what would that have cost him if we didn’t have the NHS?.
What I do agree with though is the system is far too top heavy. I was at Hospital yet again on Wednesday, and the Consultant was 1hr behind, and the Nurses, God bless em, were not just walking, they were running to and fro with patients records, dashing from one place to another. One Nurse I overheard talking to another stated she should have “Been off” two hrs ago.
I can only speak for myself, but whatever the cost it’s worth it.
After my visit this week, I was told I may well have to have yet another Op on my right leg, as there seems to be a blockage in the artery, Anyone want to take a guess at what that will cost?.
And yes,I am still paying Income Tax, so this ole git is still paying a minute part back into the system.
Jim
Lincoln .7

If we don’t replace Trident, it could well be, that we will need an NHS that’s at least twice its present size.

Since older people use the service more often as a general rule, perhaps national insurance and income tax should rise with a person’s age to make it fairer.

i’d much rather spend the Billions on the NHs than for a replacement for Trident. Even if it was only for 18months

I echo your last paragraph and have proposed a total overhaul for the last ten years or more. But of course as we all know gutless politicians will do nothing to risk the perceived wrath of the electorate.

I’m going to estimate that by the time the NHS regional deficits and this extra money are taken into account, the NHS budget will be circa £120 Billion per year. There are just over 64 million people in the UK, so on average it costs us £1875 each per year.

Depending on your source, the whole 35 year lifetime cost for the Trident replacement is equal to 18 months NHS spending.

I’m afraid the NHS needs completely overhauling, but none of the politicians will have the guts to do it.

Get rid of all the bloody managers on stupidly huge salaries, and bonuses ( The same for the Consultants, no more 30 – 80k bonuses. ) get all the NHS Trusts to use the same equipment, same computer software, etc. and stop buying everything at the sky high prices they seem to buy, when all together, they could negotiate a sensible cost for everything they buy with the purchase power they wield.

Hopefully I won’t be!!;)

Whatever it is, we’ll be paying – you can guarantee it !

Precisely!! But is it still affordable? If left unreformed I wonder how much more the taxpayer would have to contribute in another ten years time….

A lot depends on how that money is allocated.

Yes, of course it is. Raise taxation to pay for it. All Govts. know that you interfere with the NHS at your peril.