https://southfront.org/israel-hiding-state-art-f-35-warplane-hit-syrian-s-200-missile-reports/
From SouthFront.
It looks that the Israeli “demonstration of power” during the recent visit of Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu has turned into a total failure.
On October 16, Shoigu arrived Israel for meetings with Israeli Defense Minister Avigdor Lieberman and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. The sides were reportedly set to discuss the situation in the region, including Syria, the fight against terrorism as well as military and technical cooperation.
At the same day, the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) claimed that its warplanes targeted an anti-aircraft battery of the Syrian Air Defense Forces that had launched a missile at Israeli aircraft flying over Lebanon.
“The army targeted the battery with four bombs and, according to the IDF, the battery was damaged to the extent it was no longer operational. The army said the battery targeted was the same that fired at Israeli jets last March, prompting Israel make use of its Arrow anti-missile system for the first time,” the Israeli newspaper Haaretz reported on the issue.
The Syrian military confirmed the Israeli strikes and said that they caused “material damage.”
It’s interesting to note that, according to the Syrian Defense Ministry statement, Israeli warplanes violated Syria’s airspace on the border with Lebanon in Baalbek area. The incident took place at 8:51 am local time.
Could the Israeli Air Force intentionally provoke the reaction from the Syrian military in order to justify the strike on the Syrian air defense battery?
Furthermore, some pro-Israeli experts and media activists clearly linked the incident with the visit of the Russian defense minister to Tel Aviv saying that it was a nice demonstration of power to the Russian-Iranian-Syrian alliance.
However, something went wrong.
According to the available information, the Syrian Defense Forces used a S-200 missile against the Israeli warplane. This Soviet-made missile is the most advanced long range anti-aircraft system opearated by the Syrian military. Even in this case, it’s old-fashioned in terms of the modern warfare.
Despite this, the Syrian Defense Ministry said in its statement that government forces responded to the violation of the airspace and “directly hit one of the jets, forcing [Israeli aircraft] to retreat.” This statement contradicts to the Israeli claim that “no hit” was confirmed.
Few hours after the missile incident with Syria, the Israeli media reported that the Israeli Air Force’s F-35 stealth multirole fighter went unserviceable as a result of an alleged bird collision during a training flight.
The incident allegedly took place “two weeks ago” but was publicly reported only on October 16. However, Israeli sources were not able to show a photo of the F-35 warplane after the “bird collision”.
Furthermore, it is not clear if the F-35 can become operational again because its stealth coating was damaged. Thus, according to the Israeli version, the warplane reportedly became no longer operational after the bird collision despite the fact that the F-35 earlier passed the bird strike certification with great results (official info here). The F-35 is the world’s most expensive warplane. The price of developing the F-35 is now about $406.5 billion.
So what did really hit the F-35?
Counterpoint here
By: TooCool_12f - 29th November 2017 at 12:16
Never seen a stork having gases?
man, that must be a helluva fart to propel it fast enough to catch up with a jet… 😀
By: TomcatViP - 29th November 2017 at 11:35
it could show birdstrike damage. if the damage is in the rear, with parts torn off and plenty of tiny holes around, it would require a very special “bird” to do it…
Never seen a stork having gases?
By: mig-31bm - 29th November 2017 at 10:57
Its a Titanic level disaster. Or the shuttle Columbia. For one of the 1st operational F-35’s to be broad sided by an old Soviet missile is a historic disaster
yet it is every bit as legit as Doomsday in 2012
By: TooCool_12f - 29th November 2017 at 09:36
thing is, if there was a picture of damage on forward part of the aircraft, it could show birdstrike damage. if the damage is in the rear, with parts torn off and plenty of tiny holes around, it would require a very special “bird” to do it… 😀
By: SpudmanWP - 29th November 2017 at 06:48
Good thing it didn’t happen :stupid:
By: KGB - 29th November 2017 at 04:52
@halloweene
Its a Titanic level disaster. Or the shuttle Columbia. For one of the 1st operational F-35’s to be broad sided by an old Soviet missile is a historic disaster.
By: halloweene - 28th November 2017 at 21:29
Isn’t it a non issue? Even if it was a missile, no plane is unstoppable or fully invisible, missile can be “lucky” etc. So what?
By: SpudmanWP - 27th November 2017 at 20:22
Given that our largest AO for the last 2 decades has been the ME, I would be very surprised if the ME was not one of the 4.
By: FBW - 27th November 2017 at 20:00
Ok, I recall 4 of 12 regional MDF’s were required for IOC and all 12 and full threat database was due with IOT&E. Correct?
Israel contracted a specific set of MDF for theirs plus ability to develop their own.
By: SpudmanWP - 27th November 2017 at 19:49
The specifics of each MDF are of course classified, but since Israel plans on declaring IOC in December based on the Block 3i jets that it already has, it makes sense that the Block 3i MDF can do the job.
By: FBW - 27th November 2017 at 18:59
Spud, are you sure the 3i MDF are capable of that? I though the regional specific MDF and full threat library was due with 3F, but currently, 3i aircraft do not have this capability.
The contract for the F-35I MDF’s was due for 2020-21 I believe.
By: SpudmanWP - 27th November 2017 at 18:45
Norway was the first to receive the MDF for Block 3F. The first Israeli F-35s were delivered at Block 3i which came with their own version of the MDF. Each Block gets an updated set of MDFs due to updates to the hardware and software involved int eh Block update.
There is nothing stopping Israeli F-35s from using their Block 3i based MDFs to gather intel.
By: FBW - 27th November 2017 at 18:37
he F-35I is an exceptionel ELINT tool. Every flight of it generates related data from constant sniffing. An incursion in the secure Lebanese airspace during night-time to learn some ELINT from the Syrians and Russians nearby in realtime is worth some risc and has nothing to do with IOC.
The F-35 WILL be an exceptional ELINT tool. The F-35I do not have the MDF (mission data files) for threat ID and detection yet. In fact, Norway was the first overseas customer to receive their MDF (on Nov 9). The IDF would not send the aircraft into collect data without the software needed to make the F-35 an exceptional ELINT tool.
Quite simply didn’t happen. Why would they send an aircraft that isn’t operational in their service, does not have critical mission software for detecting and classifying IADS, does not have the weapons integrated for SEAD/DEAD when they have perfectly capable F-16I and F-15I that do have that mission and have been operating over Syria with impunity.
People desperately WANT to believe this conspiracy theory. That is despite zero evidence, other than vague statements via Syria on SouthFront. And no, Israel reporting a birdstrike is not some smoking gun, it’s standard procedure. Even fairly secretive forces report mishaps that cause material damage.
By: KGB - 27th November 2017 at 18:34
They admitted that one of their aircraft was stuck by a bird.
well they shouldn’t have said anything.
By: bring_it_on - 27th November 2017 at 18:31
The problem with your view is, that Israel admitted something happened.
They admitted that one of their aircraft was stuck by a bird. This was followed up by them noting that it will be back flying over the next few days. Pretty routine stuff.
Why not just deny it all then ?
Why would the IDF feel a need to deny a bird-strike on an aircraft if it was determined that this information was releasable after they had officially begun working with third party on getting the aircraft back in the air? Most air-forces wouldn’t find it “classification” level material as far as a simple notification is concerned of an accident. Most release that level of data.
They brought it on themselves by disclosing anything at all.
Damn if you do, and damn if you don’t. What next, showing a charred F-35 and claiming it was a SAM that caused the damage? After all, the USAF kept photographs of the fire “hidden” as per its usual investigative protocol so it must all be a conspiracy and that F-35 involved in an engine fire must have been doing some fancy ELINT work somewhere out there for CENTCOM.
A completely uncorroborated article from a known conspiratorial source that connects entirely unrelated events in order to cook up a juicy story that no one else has so far been able to pass off with evidence. This is something that is purpose-made to spread via discussion boards and social media. In the absence of any evidence, most level headed folks will treat with the same level of seriousness as they did the obscure story filed by a French journalist that claimed a scoop in terms of the F-35I already flying missions over hostile airspace shortly after the first jets were taken in and even before they begun ramping up their training efforts. Israel has ELINT, and Strike assets in possession and they have been able to, so far, operate without any significant damage to their pilots or equipment and generate desired effects. There is no overwhelming operational need for them to pull early aircraft, tasked with TTP development and pilot qualification and begin using an interim version of the software in combat.
By: KGB - 27th November 2017 at 18:27
@bring it on
Keeping it under wraps? What would the alternative be? Allowing the media to access something that is routine and a part and parcel of operating tactical aircraft in an air-force?
The IDF certainly doesn’t, and shouldn’t feel the need to talk/share any more information
The problem with your view is, that Israel admitted something happened. Why not just deny it all then ? Why did they tell anyone that an F-35 was damaged ? They brought it on themselves by disclosing anything at all.
By: bring_it_on - 27th November 2017 at 18:15
An incursion in the secure Lebanese airspace during night-time to learn some ELINT from the Syrians and Russians nearby in realtime is worth some risc and has nothing to do with IOC.
That’s all nice and good, but then where is any evidence supporting that theory? There may be a number of things that can be said of the F-35’s capability vis-a-vis the F-16 and the F-15 (other options with the IDF) but besides the rumor and the conspiratorial article there is absolutely nothing that supports any of this. The official statement is available, and they said the aircraft would be back and flying in a few days. IOC is an important event, both from a capability perspective (having met all the software maturity requirements), from a training perspective – having FMSs operational and working with crews to develop tactics and procedures and finally from a logistical perspective, in terms of having enough experienced pilots, maintainers and logistical supply to sustain IOC.
If someone actually shot down, or damaged the F-35, the burden of proof is on the side/party making the claim in the first place which would be some substantive proof offered by the publication that floated this rumor or the side that would have access to identifiable F-35 components that would naturally be littered over the countryside. The IDF certainly doesn’t, and shouldn’t feel the need to talk/share any more information than would be routine just to float something that is doing the rounds of the rumor circuit and discussion boards. I expect some level of access granted to select local media when it comes to the country’s F-35s, and pilots over the next month or so as they finalize IOC plans. Until then I don’t think they care much for the conspiracy theorists.
By: Arabella-Cox - 27th November 2017 at 18:01
The F-35I is an exceptionel ELINT tool. Every flight of it generates related data from constant sniffing. An incursion in the secure Lebanese airspace during night-time to learn some ELINT from the Syrians and Russians nearby in realtime is worth some risc and has nothing to do with IOC.
During training flights in Israel the F-35I are paired with F-16I for some reasons.
In 1969 the F-4E had their first combat mission within weeks for Israel well before the official IOC.
By: bring_it_on - 27th November 2017 at 14:43
Keeping it under wraps? What would the alternative be? Allowing the media to access something that is routine and a part and parcel of operating tactical aircraft in an air-force? To do what? Quash an rumor being pushed by a dubious website/publication with no corroborating evidence? I guess they must also provide details of their aircraft logs to also disprove that F-35Is have engaged in strikes as some other equally as dubious rumor mills were reporting earlier? They were asked about it and gave an official response and that is about all one would expect from the IDF especially when this is something that is being peddled as a conspiracy theory, w/o any evidence. The official response is available on the previous page.
The first F-35 Full Mission Simulators were received by the IDF this quarter, and they are likely working Overtime in preparing an initial cohort of qualified and capable pilots and minimum warfighting capability so that they can declare IOC soon . Perhaps they will provide more media access to select publications/news crews when it comes to interacting with their current fleet and pilots around the time they declare IOC which could be any time in the coming month or so.
By: JangBoGo - 27th November 2017 at 14:28
When an article from “SouthFront” brings several of our more outspoken critics of the F-35 jumping on to embrace a rumor, it is time to take a step back and regain some semblance of objectivity.
Israel has seven F-35 in country. Two of which are newly arrived. Those seven aircraft are engaged in qualifying pilots, forming an operational doctrine, and being integrated into IDF. What they are not doing is going after 50 year old missile technology when the service has F-15I and F-16I with fully trained pilots and integrated weapons specific for that mission. Posting the rumor is fine, as even dubious rumors sometimes have a grain of truth. This one does not meet the smell test one bit.
Thanks for that insight. I feel, that bird is likely to be a very secret Iron Man X project.
Is this the first case of a bird hit which was kept under warps? ….wasn’t aware that a bird hit was something to be soo embarrassed about. We in India have had a lot of bird hit cases but it gets reported almost on a live basis…maybe cultural difference?
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October 18, 2017 at 5:12 am