Israel offered to sell South Africa nukes

The Israeli authorities tried to stop South Africa’s post-apartheid government declassifying the documents
I find this hard to believe…. the new South African administration is very anti-Israel… the first democratically elected Foreign Minister (Pallo Jordan) in particular.
The ANC have a long history of close relations with the PLO… if the ANC governement uncovered any documents proving the apartheid era had relations with Israel over such an explosive (ha ha) issue as nuclear weapons they would have jumped at the chance to assist their ‘comrades’ in the PLO and further demonise the aparthied era.
Either there was no nuclear co-operation or the old apartheid government did an excellent job of destroying any evidence before capitulating (much more likely).

At the Military History Musuem in Johannessburg there is a Buccaneer on display…. if you crawl under it you when no-one is looking you can see the modifications done to the bomb-bay fo it to carry a single very large payload…. ie: a nuclear bomb.

Nukes against pointed sticks seems a bit one-sided…

That’s what the natives thought about firearms, airplanes and bombs when fighting the British back in the colonial days.

Or that’s what the Argentinian sailors in the General Belgrano might have said about their pre-WWII ship being torpedoed by a nuclear sub.

Countries do things for their defense or national interest that others don’t agree with. 😀
As always there are two sides….

Probably one of the MacArthur Job books, great books!:)

Nothing new here – read all about this many years ago in a book on the subject. Can’t recall the title or author but it must have been 20 years ago I bought it…

And adding fuel to the conspiracy, this is the 747 that was rumoured to be carrying nuclear or fissable material when it crashed.

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19871128-0

Funny that according to you they are not allowed to enter the territories where they have illegally lived for years.. :confused: Your logic is very weird, buddy..

One correction – for thousands years, not for 50-100 like 99% of Arabs there.

I dont want to turn this thread into a middle east political argument. But to answer you, last time I checked, there were around half a million Israelis illegally living in Palestininan terretories. So your argument that Israelis some how respect the Palestinian areas is fundamentally wrong.

Why don’t you say what territories? Don’t be shy, you mean Judea and Samaria of course. Jesus Christ and other Jewish occupants dare to live(d) on those “Arab lands” for a thousands years. What a nerve…

Apartheid, is not only according to this book alone. UN has been saying this about Gaza in every other report.

Here I am with you. Hamas is building in Gaza a second Jews-free country in the world after Nazi Reich, its definitely apartheid. Thanks God so far its not enough nazis in Europe to finish it, although Russia helps a lot (traditions…).

Your recollection is quite correct, if chronologically inexact. 🙂

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB190/index.htm

wasn’t there an atmospheric test of one of these weapons in the 1980’s, somewhere in the South Atlantic – certainly it was alleged at the time IIRC?

Moderator Message

There has been no mention of ‘modern military aviation’ in this thread so far, but plenty of politics.

I think it probably rightly belongs in the General Discussion forum.

Regards

GA

Just some backround info on this.

This has been pretty much an open secret for years. The initial South African nukes were developed in South Africa with little help from Israel, if any. These were 6 “gun” type warheads that were deliverable by the Buccaneer. The warheads that South Africa and Israel jointly were working on was to ensure that warheads were small enough to fit on to the Jericho/RSA series missile payload bus.

A large portion of the Jericho/RSA series was funded by South Africa, who also had technical staff working on the project. The Overberg Test Range was used in testing the Jericho/RSA missiles, and Houwtec in the mountains near Cape Town was part of the testing and assembly programme. The origins of the Jericho/RSA missile lies in French technology.

What proof? There was no proof, now several newspaper articles assembled to the book and its become a proof?

Since the times of Vanunu’s testimony no further proofs are required..

“Apartheid” is a new trend in arabs accusation of Israel. This word sounds ecpecially funny from arab Parlament Members or from one of the tens of southands arab students from Israel universities, while Israelis not allowed not only live in Palestinian authority, but even to enter it. Now arabs want to find as many connections between words “apartheid” and “Israel”, thats all the blurb about this “book”.

Funny that according to you they are not allowed to enter the territories where they have illegally lived for years.. :confused: Your logic is very weird, buddy..

Because the US gave them to Israel in the first place? :rolleyes:

Let’s not rewrite history, it’s the French who gave Israel nuclear weapon technology, over US objections.

What proof? There was no proof, now several newspaper articles assembled to the book and its become a proof?

“Apartheid” is a new trend in arabs accusation of Israel. This word sounds ecpecially funny from arab Parlament Members or from one of the tens of southands arab students from Israel universities, while Israelis not allowed not only live in Palestinian authority, but even to enter it. Now arabs want to find as many connections between words “apartheid” and “Israel”, thats all the blurb about this “book”.

I dont want to turn this thread into a middle east political argument. But to answer you, last time I checked, there were around half a million Israelis illegally living in Palestininan terretories. So your argument that Israelis some how respect the Palestinian areas is fundamentally wrong.

Apartheid, is not only according to this book alone. UN has been saying this about Gaza in every other report.

Its not easy to fool the world, in this 24hr news channel era.

This is not new information to anyone who has studied military issues in South Africa or Israel. But, now we have clear substantiation.

So many Israel supporters have tried to deny Israel’s role in helping S Africa acquire nukes, and in assembling French-Israeli aircraft and equipment.

And it’s also great to have clear proof that Israel has nukes.

What proof? There was no proof, now several newspaper articles assembled to the book and its become a proof?

“Apartheid” is a new trend in arabs accusation of Israel. This word sounds ecpecially funny from arab Parlament Members or from one of the tens of southands arab students from Israel universities, while Israelis not allowed not only live in Palestinian authority, but even to enter it. Now arabs want to find as many connections between words “apartheid” and “Israel”, thats all the blurb about this “book”.

Because the US gave them to Israel in the first place? :rolleyes:

Concidering the US shouting over proliferation,
why aren’t Israel embargoed ?

And not to forget that the Cabo da Boa Esperança had strategic importance for keeping the Red fleets apart and such. And during the years of the closure of the Suez Canal it was even more important. One of the reasons for the Soviets’ and its vassals’ interest in southern Africa.

Nukes against pointed sticks seems a bit one-sided…

Through the 70’s and 80’s the RSA was surrounded by a number of newly independent hostile black republics that were supported by the Soviets with aid, weapons and Cuban mercenary forces. Not quite pointed sticks.

Dan