It appears to be official policy now

RE: The complete text

Guys,

Sorry to resurrect this thread again, but I’ve not been around… I’ve read through the text Tony posted and noticed this:

—————————————–

Maj Robert De Jong, who was the senior officer during the excavation of Lancaster J for Johnnie, says: “There was a political decision made on governmental level that we should see all the crash sites as field graves and respect them as such.

“So what we do now is only excavate an aircraft the moment it poses a danger to its environment which is the case here.

—————————————–

So aircraft will be excavated “when they pose a danger to their environment”?

Now, someone please correct me if I’m wrong, but haven’t we recently had the case of a four engined heavy found in a lake somewhere, which is still loaded with a Cookie and God knows what else? Quite rightly with such a potentially unstable load of explosives on board, no-one’s all that keen to get the thing raised, yet the stance noted above suggests to me that this is exactly the time they’d go for it.

Or there’s another case – again I’m sorry I can’t remember which aircraft it is – of an aircraft in a freshwater fjord, which the Norwegian authorities won’t allow to be raised because they’re worried about the fuel and oil on board the thing leaking out and contaminating the local water systems. And of course, if it stays in metal tanks, it’s not ever going to rust and get out that way, is it? The stupidity of some of these authorities just astounds me.

Sorry if I seem like I’m going off on one, but having only just read the thread for the first time, it’s got me bubbling a bit. Or maybe thats the sun on me ‘ead… 😉

Anyway, to echo some of the sentiments already expressed in, ahem, slightly more considered tones, I think it’s fair to say that everyone on here is appalled by our supposedly caring sharing smiling government’s attitude.

Like I said in a different topic earlier; LEST WE FORGET.

RE: The complete text

“if you care”…we do care…there’s no if about it…

Moggy has said all I wished to say and more

RE: The complete text

‘Bring the boys back home’ is a superb sentiment, and one I agree with entirely, but I fear that the good old British government will do their usual thing about it; bugger all.

From their point of view they’d probably say that if they had to fork out to bring home old war dead, it would cut into the running costs for the current RAF. After all, it costs a lot to keep the Red Arrows, the BBMF and three Tornados and a Hercules in service y’know!

But seriously, although it was not quite the same thing, the government took no notice of all the public out-cry about saving the Vulcan, and much as I love them, I’m amazed we still have the BBMF, too. Or even an RAF at all for that matter. Very sadly, I don’t think all the shouting in the world will shift our useless parliament into action.

While it IS disgraceful that so many of our brave men are still lying in unmarked graves, I think the best most of us can do for them is to REMEMBER them-remember what they did, and why they did it, and be PROUD of them. Proud and thankful.

RE: Working on bringing them home.

That’s exactly the spirit Moggy……. :0)

I do believe , that even a voice as small as 300 people can make a difference, even if we eached co-erced a friend into supporting us as well.

One of the horrible stories I heard, regarded the remains of an airman in Holland,. I can’t go into more detail, till I have the facts in front of me, but it was very very upsetting.

I believe we can all make a difference, and I believe we can all show that we punch above our weight!

Best regards

Tony

RE: Working on bringing them home.

>This is supposed to be the leading forum for matters related
>to warbirds, and so far, there is only one post in reply, to
>a very very serious topic.

>Come on, if you care lets see some support and suggestions,
>about bringing this dreadful treatment of our heroes into
>the public eye
>
>Tony

Tony,

I don’t think any of us would disagree with you on this, but what exactly are you expecting from the forum? Three hundred of us all posting “Yes this is terrible” won’t make an iota of difference.

In common with many here I have been spreading the message into conventional media (Eastern Daily Press, that sort of thing) but am I supposed to post everything I do on here just so you can all think what a terrbly fine chap I am?

Surely we all know what we must do. Write to local papers, local radio, MPs etc.

That OK?

Moggy

Posted to keep this topic fresh

This is supposed to be the leading forum for matters related to warbirds, and so far, there is only one post in reply, to a very very serious topic.

Do the sacrifices made, not matter enough to people on this board to comment, or suggest ways the powers-that-be might be approached, or is everyone just interested in looking at pictures of old aircraft?

A word to the wise. The reason you can go to airshows, and look at some of the wonderful aircraft flying, is the sacrifice made by young men, flying the same machines we enjoy today.

I think it is the least we can do, to register some form of protest at what this government is doing, or lack of?

Come on, if you care lets see some support and suggestions, about bringing this dreadful treatment of our heroes into the public eye

Tony

The complete text

Hundreds of British airmen missing since the Second World War have been condemned to remain in unmarked graves on the continent under a secret agreement drawn up by the Government.

Homeground can disclose that under a memorandum of understanding, countries like Holland have been asked to stop excavating wrecked aircraft to recover their crews.

Since 1960, the Royal Netherlands Air Force has been digging up planes downed during raids on Occupied Europe.

Last summer five men who died when their Lancaster plunged into a farmhouse east of Amsterdam were recovered at a cost of £150,000. The BBC was given unprecedented access to the operation. But, the programme reveals, they may be among the last to be given official funerals in a Commonwealth War Graves cemetery.

Under the secret deal with the Dutch Government, nearly 200 planes and their crews will be left undisturbed unless they are threatened by development, they present an environmental hazard or there is an official request from relatives to exhume them. Pressure groups like the Amsterdam based Missing Airmen’s Memorial Foundation say the decision amounts to betrayal of our war dead.

Founder Christal Boogmans tells the programme: “We heard after fifty years we should forget. I don’t think that’s good. Letters have been written tot he British Government and there has been no official reply about it. You get the statement but never why. It is a decision made and we can’t understand that. We think it is disgusting. How can you forget all these men?”

Hundreds of RAF planes were lost over Holland, many – like J for Johnnie – being embedded up to six metres below the surface. German forces refused to retrieve the remains of their crews – and many were difficult to reach with the digging and pumping equipment available at the end of the war. Privately, many Dutch servicemen are bewildered by the deal. Salvage teams have been excavating up to six wartime crash sites a year for 40 years.

Maj Robert De Jong, who was the senior officer during the excavation of Lancaster J for Johnnie, says: “There was a political decision made on governmental level that we should see all the crash sites as field graves and respect them as such.

“So what we do now is only excavate an aircraft the moment it poses a danger to its environment which is the case here.

“The next of kin in this case are lucky because the know everything possible is being done to bring them back home but on the other hand the military is an instrument of the politicians and we have to follow those rules.”

In contrast to Britain’s stance, not one American airman is known to be buried in an unmarked grave – all the personnel in US planes have been returned to America for burial.

England My England

According to what it says they WILL recover them if they receive an official request from the relatives, so……..

Perhaps it is time for a concerted effort to notify the relatives of the government’s policy, I think it is a safe bet that 99% of the British people know nothing about this policy at all.

So inform the newspapers, who always love the chance to give the gov a good kicking, inform the TV news, inform the aviation magazines, inform the veterans associations, and perhaps very effective would be an information stand at airshows…..so when the BBMF come flying over as the government’s official representatives of their concern for wartime aircrews, the public will be well aware that the government really doesn’t give a stuff for them and their lost relatives, no matter how many Spitfires they still fly for us.

Of course I think we all knew what this government really thought of the war and it’s people when Blair refused to honour the Battle of Britain at the 60th anniversary in 2000, got plenty of time and money for the Queen’s bloody golden jubilee celebrations though.