Jail Over WWII Relic

tonyt, spitfireman, ade and others,

Many thanks for thinking about this anecdote, and for the information provided. The revolver was a Smith & Wesson .38 ‘top-break ‘exactly as shown in this article:

http://www.shootingtimes.com/handgun_reviews/smith_12_0507/

I should like to have kept it, as we would any family heirloom, but we’re probably better off without it in this day and age, in the light of recent events.

Phil

Sadly .38 isn’t obsolete, and I think you did the right thing, even getting it de activated would be a problem, as it has to be a recorded firearm, (i.e from a legitimate source) to be deactivated; some crash/digs recovered weapons that are badly corroded and/or damaged, are classed as relics.

Paul, if it is a single, yes but a kingsize, would need an awful lot of guns…..

What would happen if she decided to hide a mattress under a stash of guns?

tonyt, spitfireman, ade and others,

Many thanks for thinking about this anecdote, and for the information provided. The revolver was a Smith & Wesson .38 ‘top-break ‘exactly as shown in this article:

http://www.shootingtimes.com/handgun_reviews/smith_12_0507/

I should like to have kept it, as we would any family heirloom, but we’re probably better off without it in this day and age, in the light of recent events.

Phil

This was not about “possession of an unlicenced weapon” (or whatever the offence is/was).

It is. This wasn’t just an unlicenced weapon, as you can’t get a licence for it, as it’s a banned weapon, so, the mandatory minimum 5 year prison sentance is very valid. She had this in her possession during and after the ramifications of Dunblane, so being in Scotland I find it pretty hard to believe she can try to say she didn’t know it was wrong to have it, and hiding it under the bed pretty much proves that.

Did she have “previous”?

Yes, although I seen differing reports ranging from a deferred sentence to conviction for assault to severe injury and her son ranging from theft to assault and carrying a knife. :rolleyes:

As I say,I stand corrected.That info was off the top of my head.I have read the FA many times and is quite challenging to absorb as well as the VCRA docs.

A gun that is capable of killing is a gun capable of killing regardless of age,it’s the owner that needs testing out and look what happened in the last week or two,that never worked either.:(

You can legally hold a certificate for a pistol providing it was made before 1911,and it is locked in a vault at a designated,home office approved range/club eg- Bisley.
This is section 7.Also if a firearm in ones possession as “war trophy” it can be held providing it is of historical significance.
Clause 36 and 37 for VCRA for RIFs,membership of reenactment society etc. .There is a list on the firearms act that tells you the obsolete calibers.
If i am wrong on any of the above,I stand corrected.

Try getting a section 7 firearms, this is essentially for an existing collector; you cannot count weapons that you already own that you have shown “a need” for, as however old they might be, or historically important, they weren’t applied for as part of a collection, and therefore can’t be included in a “collection”.

beat me to it:p

You can legally hold a certificate for a pistol providing it was made before 1911,and it is locked in a vault at a designated,home office approved range/club eg- Bisley.
This is section 7.Also if a firearm in ones possession as “war trophy” it can be held providing it is of historical significance.
Clause 36 and 37 for VCRA for RIFs,membership of reenactment society etc. .There is a list on the firearms act that tells you the obsolete calibers.
If i am wrong on any of the above,I stand corrected.

I’m a bit shocked by this, as for more than 100 years we had an 1880’s Smith & Wesson revolver in my family’s possession which belonged to my great-grandfather.

He was a Cornish Miner who went to South Africa at the end of the 19th C. and brought it back with him when he came home.

My grandfather was a Farmer and kept it loaded during the second world war, “in case the Nazis landed”.

I didn’t want to part with it, but with a heavy heart finally took advantage of one of the fire arms amnesties to hand it in to the Police.

We know we shouldn’t have unlicensed guns and if caught we face the consequences, no matter who or what we are.

Soggy if it is a unused or unusual calibre and an antique there is a dispensation I believe that makes them legal to own without a licence.

7. As well as not being a type for which ammunition is readily available, the individual gun (not just the make or model) must have been manufactured before 1 January 1919. This is a statutory requirement, and the police cannot grant a firearm certificate for a pistol made after this date to be kept at home under section 7(1). The police will wish to be satisfied that the gun concerned falls within this category.

Certain types of gun were not made after 1919. These include as examples the following which are chambered for cartridges not considered readily available:

Adams revolvers
Bergman M 1903, 1905 1908 pistols
Borchardt pistols
Colt: Model 1873 and Model 1878 revolvers in .450, .455 and .476 calibre
Dutch 9.4mm Model 1873 and 10mm model 1894
Enfield Mk I and Mk II .476 service revolvers
French 11mm Models 1870, 1873 and 1874
German 10.6mm models 1879 and 1883
Kynoch revolvers
Lancaster four and two-barrelled pistols
Mannlicher pistols
Russian 11mm (.44) S&W models 1871, 1872 and 1874
Schouboe pistols
Smith & Wesson Model No.3 revolver in .450, .455 and .44 Russian calibre, First and Second Model hand ejectors in .455
Webley No.4 and No. 4 1/2 (Pryse) revolvers
Webley Kaufman & WG models 1889, 1891, 1892, 1893, or marked as WG Army Model or Webley WG target model
Wilkinson and Webley Wilkinson revolvers

therefore you may have been legally entitled to keep it.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ERORecords/HO/421/2/ppd/oppu/histarm.htm

http://www.classicguncompany.co.uk/legal.htm

Not sure you were breaking any law here.

I was told any gun over 100 years does not need a FAC therefore can be legally owned by anyone. Doesn’t mean you can carry it up the high street though.

Not great advice, I’m afraid, as I’ve said elsewhere on this forum, my Martini Henry .22 is about 1870, and very much a firearm; if it were still in it’s original calibre .450/577, it would be classed as an obsolete calibre, and no licence required.

There was more to the story and it relates to the background of the people involved. A pistol is deadly at close range and is easily concealed. The abscence of ammunition is not relevant to the offence because this could be in another place which was not discovered.

The handling of firearms in the Uk is very sensitive regarding storage.And even damaged ex crash site weapons are subject to control.

Would this be illegal in England then?……….I’m glad I moved away years ago……..Mind you I don’t keep it under the bed either!!!!!!!!!!!!

I’m a bit shocked by this, as for more than 100 years we had an 1880’s Smith & Wesson revolver in my family’s possession which belonged to my great-grandfather.

He was a Cornish Miner who went to South Africa at the end of the 19th C. and brought it back with him when he came home.

My grandfather was a Farmer and kept it loaded during the second world war, “in case the Nazis landed”.

I didn’t want to part with it, but with a heavy heart finally took advantage of one of the fire arms amnesties to hand it in to the Police.

We know we shouldn’t have unlicensed guns and if caught we face the consequences, no matter who or what we are.

Not sure you were breaking any law here.

I was told any gun over 100 years does not need a FAC therefore can be legally owned by anyone. Doesn’t mean you can carry it up the high street though.

perhaps he is still at-large, disguised as a matress 😀

our posts crossed

i wonder why they had to search for her son under the matress, is he a slim lad?

Moggy is right! There is more in this than meets the eye. The police, according to one report (in the Telegraph), ‘found’ the weapon whilst searching the property for the woman’s son John. Why were they searching? – and under a bed? I suspect that the woman exchanged, possibly heated, words with the Constabules. Did she have “previous”?
This was not about “possession of an unlicenced weapon” (or whatever the offence is/was). It is more likely to be about “ruffled feathers” on the part of the Polis.
HTH
Resmoroh

.. she was keeping the gun “underneath a mattress” (maybe an odd place to store a family heirloom) and the police were trying to arrest her son.

Was he hiding under the mattress too?

Moggy

I’m a bit shocked by this, as for more than 100 years we had an 1880’s Smith & Wesson revolver in my family’s possession which belonged to my great-grandfather.

He was a Cornish Miner who went to South Africa at the end of the 19th C. and brought it back with him when he came home.

My grandfather was a Farmer and kept it loaded during the second world war, “in case the Nazis landed”.

I didn’t want to part with it, but with a heavy heart finally took advantage of one of the fire arms amnesties to hand it in to the Police.

We know we shouldn’t have unlicensed guns and if caught we face the consequences, no matter who or what we are.