Jammed Accelerator Pedal – Bad Advice?

The frozen engine scenario, it depends on how the valve pieces end up I suppose. I agree, in most cases it prolly won’t sieze though.
Lexus did exist in the 70’s, but it was just the luxury end of Toyota, they made the “Crown Custom” or whatever it was called. They re-branded it to enable a niche mark-up and to overcome the 11% importation rules.

You should try the ‘braking while accelerating’ thing…..I’ll await results. 😉

If i remeber correctly when i tried it as a youth many years ago it stopped bloody quick!!

Any chance we can stop the willy-waving for a moment?

You mean ‘frank exchange of views’ don’t you! :p

Fair enough…..what should we talk about now? :confused:

As an experiment I switched off the engine on my (let’s call it a Mondeo for simplicity) today

There was sufficient residual power in the system to brake to a halt and steer to the kerb.

You should try the ‘braking while accelerating’ thing…..I’ll await results. 😉

Yes, Lexus. I looked at some before I bought the 7. They do not hold the quality inside or out. Nice, but not for longevity. The lump had gone on most of them, the screwdriver-on-ear check revealed lots of ticks and tocks.

Well, I can understand that you may have a preference but I’ve never owned either so can’t really speak from that point of view. But engineering wise, I’d say Lexus would probably have the edge. I’m not knocking BMW but Lexus didn’t exist twenty years ago!

A snapped cambelt usually ends up with a braking system known as a frozen engine.

Never, not in a million years! Even if the pistons hit the valves (which will happen in a heartbeat) the engine will not seize…..ever.

But will the average driver depress the clutch when the engine goes? If he doesn’t the crank will keep turning, and therefore the PAS will still be working, but manufacturers still have to account for PAS belt, pump or hose failure. In these circumstances the steering must ‘fail-safe’ even for a seven-stone-weakling.

I still think that despite lack of PAS and servo-assist on the brakes the average driver will be better able to stop safely than with the engine screaming at 6000 RPM and the car in neutral.

That’s just my opinion obviously…..but it is worth pointing out that on most modern cars (and I’m sure the Toyota models in question)…

…if you (gently) brake while accelerating hard the engine management computer will cut the fuel supply to the engine…..even if the accelerator pedal is jammed!

Those drivers who are confident enough should try this…..especially if they own a Toyota!

Any chance we can stop the willy-waving for a moment?

As an experiment I switched off the engine on my (let’s call it a Mondeo for simplicity) today

There was sufficient residual power in the system to brake to a halt and steer to the kerb.

Let’s move on.

Moggy

Yes, Lexus. I looked at some before I bought the 7. They do not hold the quality inside or out. Nice, but not for longevity. The lump had gone on most of them, the screwdriver-on-ear check revealed lots of ticks and tocks.

As for losing the PAS and PAB, yes. Nowthen, at speed the slight movement available on Steer may be enough to enable CFI the kerb. The brakes will probably give enough to bring speed down to a survivable speed. And in panic one would stamp the brake anyway, and there is a lot of strength available when in danger, especially in the legs. A snapped cambelt usually ends up with a braking system known as a frozen engine.
The media doesn’t need to be full of stories about this “Death trap”, as it is a primary safety point in the Highway code etc. “Never Coast”….or words to that effect. Even at coasting, the speed can be 70 but the lump is on tickover at 700rpm, which is not actually enough “Power assist” to stop half a ton of metal at that speed. Fortunately, modern brakes are actually cack-hot and one can get away with it…..but not twice on the same coast.

I have coasted for about 5 miles on the Heads of the Valley Road in South Wales, on the way into Abergavenny from the West. Using a tapping action on brakes to keep speed to 70, one notices that each tap needs to be a bit harder than previous. Yes, I knew it was dangerous and probably illegal? but it was 3am and only me, postmen and burglars were out.

I’m not trying to insult you Old Shape…

…but I realise I’m on dangerous ground ‘insulting’ your car (I may as well have said something about the size of your *****)! 😀

My comments about ‘weaker drivers’ were intended to be just that; we’re not all six-foot-two and built like a brick ‘out-house’ so car manufacturers have to account for the seven-stone-weakling driver.

Are you really suggesting that a BMW 5 series (or any other car) loses both its brakes and its steering whenever the engine stops? What about a snapped cambelt (or chain) or simply running out of fuel? These events happen on a daily basis so why isn’t the media full of stories about these ‘death-trap’ situations when a million-to-one problem with Toyota is front page news?

With regard to a ten year old BMW versus Toyota are we including Lexus? :diablo:

Don’t try it, the lump may suffer valve jump and that could cause a spectacular grungey noise. All the parts you need to fix it are in the sump.

I admit it sounds simple.

Try this: On a quiet, safe bit of road while driving at 50mph (with a warm engine), put you car in neutral and then hold the RPM at the red-line while you brake or coast to a safe stop.

That sounds simple to me…..but I bet you can’t do it. 😉

If the accelerator sticks first thing i would do is put it into neutral, stop then turn the engine off, or is that too simple?

Creak, you need to wise up on this subject, a little shoebox like a Toyota will probably stop and steer enough to have a controlled flight into the gutter.

I am 6 foot 2 and fit, healthy. Full arm lock on my 7 series, with no power to the steering, would just about get you to the kerb. The brakes would need as much pressure on them as a power lift down the gym. In no way whatsoever would one be in control. And, as you well know, a BMW (Even the modern ugly ones by that Yank) will always outshine/outdrive/outlive a Jap. And of course they have class and style, again, unlike a Jappo.
I have been to the Toyota plants in Japan, where I was tought the TPS, we then went on to the Kawasaki plants in Kobe, where we learnt the KPS (Which is the TPS with refinements).
Show me a >12 year old Toyota that still runs as well as a >12 year old Beamer. (Showpieces and collectors specials disallowed) I know you can’t.
Toyotas best product ever was the flat bed, as proved on Top Gear.

If that was in the link then it should have been typed here.

Sorry, you’ve lost me…..if what was in the link? :confused:

And, once power is gone from my car, it is almost impossible to turn the steering, and it won’t stop either. I have done this “Just for the hell of it” on Dunsfold runway…..I was doing 40…

Real cars, not Jap heaps.

Are BMW really that bad?

All cars have provision for power-steering failure built-in; the driver has to be able to steer the car should the power-steering fail and after all this isn’t that unlikely as the power-steering pump is usually driven by a very simple ‘fan-belt’ arrangement. Yes, the steering will be harder work and it will certainly feel very different but it should be relatively easy (even for a weaker driver) to steer.

The same applies to the servo-assistance on the brakes; it will feel very different and require more effort but it is a built-in requirement that the brakes should still effectively stop the car relatively easily.

Think about how many things could cause your engine to cut-out; would manufacturers allow all of these to result in steering and brake failure too?

In the case of the brakes most servo-assistance systems allow one full application of the brakes with servo-assistance even if the engine has been switched off. If this didn’t allow you to stop your BMW from only 40mph I would suggest there is something wrong with it.

Engineering wise Toyota do make real cars…..certainly as good as anything BMW can produce.

Did you actually read the ‘opinion’?

The ‘opinion’ was in three parts (note part one) and unless you are doing 100mph or are going round a hairpin bend the average drive will cope without power-assisted steering or servo-assisted brakes.

Have you actually tried applying your brakes gently with the accelerator pedal pressed hard down in gear, clutch out?

See what happens.

If that was in the link then it should have been typed here.
And, once power is gone from my car, it is almost impossible to turn the steering, and it won’t stop either. I have done this “Just for the hell of it” on Dunsfold runway (When it was still a runway) and when I had an immediate battery fail as I left my drive, luckily there was nothing coming and the opposing kerb stopped me. At Dunny I was doing 40 and from my drive less than 10. BMW 5 series and 7 series. Real cars, not Jap heaps.

I don’t know of any car that the steering lock will come on unless you remove the key completely from the ignition. I think that this is an ‘industry standard’ safety feature.

You may well be right Creaking Door, I was flapping at the time and my friend I’m sure was much more cool and calm than me and I’m sure it was because I was a 20 year old living at home working in an insurance office and he had been in the army since we were 16 !

I started to flap and panic, my passenger (at the time a serving soldier and recently trained HGV driver) leaned across and turned off the ignition without applying the steering lock and we coasted to a halt.

I don’t know of any car that the steering lock will come on unless you remove the key completely from the ignition. I think that this is an ‘industry standard’ safety feature.

I’ve had this happen

In my old Escort Mk II “popular plus”. Old “T” reg (YRX 781 T)

Driving in snow, ice built up around the accelerator cable and it jammed, came off a main road into a country lane and went to change down, the engine stayed at high revs.

I started to flap and panic, my passenger (at the time a serving soldier and recently trained HGV driver) leaned across and turned off the ignition without applying the steering lock and we coasted to a halt.

Opening up the bonnet we found ice and snow had driven under the bonnet and or through the radiator and built up around the carbarettor etc, and the accelerator cable was packed solid with ice. We used a cigarette lighter to melt it and we were on our way.

Oddly enough, we pulled up at his house and a twunt in a Volvo with snow all over his windows backed into the drivers door and did a few hundred quids worth of damage.:eek:

Did you actually read the ‘opinion’?

The ‘opinion’ was in three parts (note part one) and unless you are doing 100mph or are going round a hairpin bend the average drive will cope without power-assisted steering or servo-assisted brakes.

Have you actually tried applying your brakes gently with the accelerator pedal pressed hard down in gear, clutch out?

See what happens.

The advice is correct, the other opinion is not.

If you turn off engine (Obviously leaving the key in) then you will lose Hyd. braking power and power steering. One needs control of as much of the machine as possible.

.. stop the carry, quickly.

Stop the car presumably?

And how exactly is ABS going to assist in this, or are you suggesting that they will panic so much they will lock the brakes?

Moggy

As CD has intimated, the benefits of having the power steering and servo brakes functioning fully would probably be outweighed by the distraction to the unwary caused by the cacophony of the engine bouncing off the rev limiter.

Moggy

The first thing the uniniated is going to do is stop the carry, quickly. Therefore, it would be best if the ABS be functional given the capabilites of most drivers.

The advice given by the IAM above is the best course of action.