Japan hunts intruding submarine amid alarm over China

According to a JCG order of battle, at
http://www31.ocn.ne.jp/~zenibo/mjcgpl.htm
in the 9th column, most JCG patrol boats apparently have 40 mm and/or 20 mm cannons.

An old copy of Janes has other MSA ships mounting the same weapon as having a JM-61 MB 20 mm Gatling.

Unicorn

The Japan Coast Guard site, at
http://www.kaiho.mlit.go.jp/syoukai/soshiki/gijyutu/ship.html
only has the ships’ dimensions and weights.
No weapon details. 8(

That pirate flag is sweet. Anywho, What kind of cannon is on that ship?

Possibly Sea Vulcan?

That pirate flag is sweet. Anywho, What kind of cannon is on that ship?

Looks like a stripped down goalkeeper without any of the sensors.

Off-Topic

Japan’s former prime minister Ryutaro Hashimoto, who frequently visits China, met Thursday with senior Chinese officials and told them the submarine incident was “regrettable”, without assigning blame.

http://dailynews.yahoo.co.jp/fc/domestic/obituary/?1151734079
reported:

1 July 2006:

橋本元首相が死去、68歳＝省庁再編・沖縄問題に尽力

About 14:00, former Japanese Prime Minister (1996 January to 1998 July) Hashimoto Ryuutarou (68) passed away.

That pirate flag is sweet. Anywho, What kind of cannon is on that ship?

JCG

http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20060528-00000009-maip-soci

27 May 2006:
Tokyo Bay, near Haneda.
JCG, police, USCG, others.
Joint exercise to intercept suspicious ship.
71 ships, 20 aircraft.

Note pirate flag on JCG ship. 8)

Like I said…….lets all now hug and kiss :p 😀 …

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/117399/1/.html

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000080&sid=aFV9kCxz_OQ8&refer=asia

Yeah right… Note though. Japan is to the EAST of China. The pacific ocean is to the EAST of Japan. But the Chinese SSN entered from the Pacific and travelled towards the west… Interesting point isn’t it?

Ok, lets all now hug and kiss….

Technical error eh? 😉

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/117377/1/.html

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000080&sid=aFV9kCxz_OQ8&refer=asia

There are certainly SOSUS arrays in the pacific but, ALL of their locations, are not in the public domain.

In this case the Chinese boat has been detected a long time prior to her interception in order to have 2 DDG’s and an Orion on her for the two hours she was in Japanese waters!. The PLAN skipper probably thought he was quite safe to sneak in, get a couple of scope shots of ‘disputed’ gas production facilities, and get out before a prosecution could be mounted.

By the sound of it the Japanese knew where he was and had those destroyers waiting for him. To me that suggests the involvement of one of their SURTASS boats, but, that would be just speculation. It could be that a JMSDF SSK or a friendly SSN has been ‘on’ the Han for a while, but, usually in those cases no interventions are made so as not to tip off the opposition as to your capabilities.

On balance of probability I’d say SURTASS cueing got this guy, but, its only educated guesswork!.

So all those upgrades and refits to the 091 didn’t make any difference. It seems that Japanese hunted it nicely. PLAN better come up with some really fancy quietening tech for the 093….or she maybe toast tooo 😮

There was a post at CDF which stated it might have been 1st tracked by a SURTASS/SOSUS network thinggy…..maybe Jonesy could give some input here.

Refitted 091 pics:

There are just alot of sayings…

Some say Taiwanese passed the info to Japs for early alert, and some say the unfortunate Sub was in Mech-trouble at the moment, and now even suggested that’s actually some sort of ” show off” by the Chinese.

So you judge yourself, Neverthless you zeal guys won’t be disappointed in seeing such “affairs” occuring more n more often in the coming years. You know the further the Chinese navy can go into, the more “friction” will happen in touch with Japenses interests.

More artys from CDF:

A strategically important area for China
The Asahi Shimbun

The area where the trespassing submarine was first sighted has strategic military and economic significance for China, military experts say.

Defense Agency sources said submarines from various countries often crisscross the waters between the southern tip of Kyushu and the Okinawa islands.

But experts say China would have a strong motive for keeping a submarine in that area.

The waters are vitally important to China, especially if relations should deteriorate with Taiwan.

A U.S. military source said the sub may have been on a reconnaissance mission to monitor a U.S. Navy training exercise in those waters.

If conflict arises between China and Taiwan, Beijing will have to deploy many attack submarines in a short period to prevent a U.S. aircraft carrier battle group from coming to Taipei’s rescue.

“It is often said that when China is to conduct a mission in the Taiwan Strait, it will likely have its submarines lay mines in the waters to the east of Taiwan to contain the actions of the United States and Japan,” said a former high-ranking officer in the MSDF submarine fleet. The latest incident “may have some connection to that strategy.”

Another former officer in the submarine fleet said Chinese subs have almost never attempted to enter waters around Ishigakijima island because of the complicated nature of the territorial boundaries.

“A navigational map clearly shows how easy it is to cross the boundary,” the former officer said. “There is the strong possibility the objective was to try to determine what Japan’s response would be.”

The officer said a submarine rescue ship spotted near Tanegashima last week may have been a decoy to draw attention away from the Okinawa islands.

Chinese surface vessels have become more prevalent recently. According to MSDF officials, as of Nov. 5 there have been 33 cases this year of Chinese ships sailing in the East China Sea within Japan’s exclusive economic zone or open waters. There were only seven such cases in the same period last year.

Most of the ships this year were believed to be studying natural resources under the seabed.

However, some MSDF officials said the ships may have been mapping the sea floor to develop submarine routes that would allow Chinese vessels to sail from the East China Sea to the Pacific Ocean.(IHT/Asahi: November 12,2004)

Saturday November 13, 1:01 AM
Japan demands Chinese apology after submarine intrusion
AFP

Japan summoned a top Chinese diplomat to demand an apology for the intrusion into its waters of a nuclear submarine, which set off a two-day chase at sea amid mounting tension between the Asian powers.

Japan, which had initially been careful not to blame its giant neighbor for Wednesday’s two-hour territorial violation near disputed gas fields, said it determined the submarine belonged to the Chinese navy.

“We made a strong protest and demanded an apology,” Japanese Foreign Minister Nobutaka Machimura said after meeting Chinese embassy number two Cheng Yonghua, who was summoned because the ambassador was out of Tokyo.

Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi called the intrusion “extremely regrettable” and said he was awaiting Beijing’s response, but argued that the incident should not sour ties further.

“Since Sino-Japan relations are important, we both have to make efforts to prevent a problem like this from creating negative impact,” Koizumi told reporters.

Cheng said he would report to Beijing but Machimura quoted him as adding: “‘We are investigating this matter so we cannot accept a protest or make an apology.'”

Disputes have been growing between China and Japan, with a leaked report by Japanese defense planners this week charting three scenarios for a Chinese attack — all involving the southern region near where the submarine intruded.

The two countries, which both rely heavily on energy imports to feed their massive economies, held fruitless talks last month in Beijing about how to demarcate the gas fields.

A 1999 Japanese survey estimated the fields to have 200 billion cubic meters (seven trillion cubic feet) of reserves.

Japan’s football team was loudly jeered and booed by Chinese crowds as it won the Asian Cup this summer in China.

Chief Cabinet Secretary Hiroyuki Hosoda, the Japanese government spokesman, said Japan did not want to cause more confrontation with China.

“There is no change in our basic diplomatic policy that is based on peaceful diplomacy and friendship,” Hosoda said.

A fact-finding mission from the Japanese parliament called Wednesday for a slash in development aid to China, which has so far totalled nearly 32 billion dollars, citing China’s growing economy and hostility toward Japan.

Asked whether the submarine incident would lead Japan to pull the plug on aid, Hosoda said: “It’s too early to judge that.”

China feels deep resentment over Japan’s brutal occupation of the country from 1931 to 1945. The feeling has been regularly reinforced by Koizumi’s visits to a Tokyo shrine that honors Japanese war dead including convicted war criminals.

The visits to the Yasukuni shrine have made Koizumi persona non grata in Beijing, which has yet to confirm whether Chinese President Hu Jintao will meet him when they both attend the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation summit in Chile later this month.

If Hu and Koizumi do meet in Santiago, it would be “natural” that they discuss the submarine intrusion, Machimura said.

The submarine entered Japanese waters about 300 kilometers (180 miles) southwest of Okinawa, a southern island which hosts about 65 percent of the more than 40,000 US forces in Japan.

Japan sent two destroyers after the submarine along with a surveillance plane, which had been tracking the vessel by dropping wireless microphone buoys.

“As the submarine navigated north by northwest, we determined it belonged to China as the country possesses nuclear-powered submarines in the area and has thorough knowledge of geographical features of the ocean area,” said Japan’s military chief, Defense Agency Director-General Yoshinori Ono.

There was no immediate reaction out of Beijing.

Japan’s former prime minister Ryutaro Hashimoto, who frequently visits China, met Thursday with senior Chinese officials and told them the submarine incident was “regrettable”, without assigning blame.

Those pursuing P-3s better have some fighter escorts as they approach Chinese waters… 😉

More from CDF:

sub IDed???!!

TOKYO (Reuters) – A submarine that intruded into waters off Japan earlier this week has been identified as Chinese, Japan’s top government spokesman Hiroyuki Hosoda said on Friday, adding that Tokyo would protest to Beijing.
Japan mobilized its navy for the first time in five years on Wednesday after the unidentified submarine was spotted near the Okinawa islands, 1,000 miles southwest of Tokyo.

The intrusion was brief and no warning shots were fired, but the mobilization was a rare display of Japan’s military capability, long constrained by a pacifist constitution.

© Reuters 2004. All Rights Reserved.

Japan keeps eye on suspicious sub heading for China

An unidentified submarine that infiltrated Japanese waters on Wednesday moved beyond Japan’s air-defense identification zone early on Friday, and continued to weave its way toward China, officials said.

Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi met with Defense Agency Director General Yoshinori Ono and Foreign Minister Nobutaka Machimura after a Cabinet meeting on Friday, and decided to have the Maritime Self-Defense Force (MSDF) continue to pursue the vessel with P3C surveillance aircraft to monitor whether it enters Chinese waters.

Japanese government officials are poised to request information from China or launch a protest after confirming the submarine’s movements.

“We will take appropriate measures after we are in a position to determine the submarine’s country of origin,” Machimura said in a news conference on Friday morning.

Judging by the sound made by the sub’s propeller, Japanese officials believe it is a Chinese military Han-class nuclear-powered submarine.

The submarine intruded into Japanese waters near the Sakishima Islands in Okinawa on Wednesday, and then headed toward China through the East China Sea.

It was located north of the Senkaku Islands on Friday morning. The MSDF will continue to pursue the submarine up until a line set near Chinese waters. (Mainichi and wire reports, Japan, Nov. 12, 2004)

Japan protests to China over submarine intrusion

TOKYO (AFP) Nov 12, 2004
Japan on Friday summoned a Chinese diplomat after determining that a nuclear submarine that intruded its waters near a disputed gas field and set off a high-seas chase came from its giant neighbor.
“We have judged the submarine to belong to the Chinese navy and it’s likely the submarine was a nuclear submarine and through diplomatic channels we are going to protest to China,” Chief Cabinet Secretary Hiroyuki Hosoda, the government spokesman, told reporters.

Japan summoned Cheng Yonghua, a minister at the Chinese embassy, to hear Japan’s protest at 5:00 pm (0800 GMT), foreign ministry spokesman Hatsuhisa Takashima said.

Japan had earlier refrained from identifying the submarine, which was spotted near gas fields disputed between the Asian powers.

But Japan’s defense chief said the country had determined the submarine was Chinese during the two-day search that ended Friday.

“As the submarine navigated north by northwest, we determined it belonged to China as the country possesses nuclear-powered submarines in the area and has thorough knowledge of geographical features of the ocean area,” Defense Agency Director General Yoshinori Ono said.

The submarine spent about two hours in Japanese waters Wednesday near the southern island of Okinawa before being chased on the high seas by two Japanese destroyers and a surveillance plane.

Japan had been tracking the sub with wireless microphone buoys dropped from the surveillance plane.

China has said only that it was aware of the reports of the submarine and was “watching the situation closely.”

“Of course the relevant departments are maintaining close contact to watch this incident,” Chinese foreign ministry spokeswoman Zhang Qiyue said Thursday.

Disputes have been mounting between China and Japan, which are both heavily dependent on energy imports.

China feels deep resentment over Japan’s brutal occupation of the country from 1931 to 1945. The feeling has been regularly reinforced by Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi’s visits to a Tokyo shrine that honors Japanese war dead including convicted war criminals.

It looks like it was a repeat of last November where a Ming class surfaced after tracking joint Japanese-American exercises.

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/newse/20041112wo02.htm

‘China may have been flaunting its power’

Hidemichi Katsumata / Yomiuri Shimbun Staff Writer

A senior officer of the Maritime Self-Defense Force has described the intrusion into Japanese waters by a suspected Chinese Navy nuclear submarine Wednesday as a possible attempt to flex China’s naval muscles.

In waters off Okinawa Prefecture where the intrusion occurred, the MSDF and the U.S. Navy’s 7th Fleet conducted a 10-day joint drill starting late October.

The drill was a rehearsal for operations against submarines in shallow waters. It was a large-scale maneuver, involving a total of five submarines from Japan and the United States.

On Nov. 5, during the drill, two Chinese Navy vessels, one of which was a rescue ship for submarines, were spotted in the Pacific Ocean about 300 kilometers southeast of Tanegashima island, Kagoshima Prefecture, close to the site of the drill.

. . .

In November last year, a Chinese submarine surfaced in the Osumi Strait in Kagoshima Prefecture while Japan-U.S. drills were being held.

But the latest incident was different in that the submarine did not surface at regular intervals for ventilation, which a diesel-powered submarine must do.

A senior Defense Agency official said, “It’s highly likely that it’s a Han-class nuclear-powered attack submarine,” adding, “With the dispatch of a nuclear submarine, the Chinese Navy’s operations are in full swing.”

Maybe the sub belongs to a supervillian organization like SMERSH.

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3745701

Hunt for Red November

“PA”

Japan’s military shadowed an unidentified submarine that entered its territorial waters today but officials said they had not yet figured out what country the intruder was from.

Tokyo put its navy on alert on Wednesday after spotting the submarine off the southern island of Okinawa, and sent a reconnaissance plane and destroyer to follow its movements.

The submarine, which spent two hours in Japanese waters before leaving, was heading north today, Chief Cabinet Secretary Hiroyuki Hosoda.

He refused to confirm reports that defence officials believe the vessel is from China, saying: “We don’t have enough conclusive evidence to make a determination.”

He said it would take some time to identify the submarine because it has not surfaced and did not appear to be heading toward a specific country.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Zhang Qiyue said she didn’t know if the vessel was Chinese.

“The Chinese side is now paying close attention to this issue and I do not approve or encourage any random suppositions on this question,” Zhang said. “As to whether this is a Chinese submarine, I do not know and I cannot provide you any information on this.”

Japanese public broadcaster NHK said defence officials suspected it was a Chinese Han-class nuclear submarine, based on an analysis of the sounds it was making.

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,11357156%255E1702,00.html

China ‘no clues’ over mystery sub
From correspondents in Beijing
November 11, 2004

CHINA today said it knew nothing about a submarine that entered Japanese waters near a disputed gas field sparking a high seas chase, but was watching the issue closely.

“We have seen the reports and are watching the situation closely,” foreign ministry spokeswoman Zhang Qiyue said.

“Of course the relevant departments are maintaining close contact to watch this incident.”

She refused to either confirm or deny it was a Chinese vessel.

The submarine was detected early yesterday in Japanese waters near islands disputed with China about 300 kilometres south-west of Okinawa.

Or it might have been traveling near the surface intentionally to send a message.

The area around Okinawa is disputed.

Actually, nearly exactly one year ago, a Chinese Type 35 sub surfaced explicitly 40 kms off the Japanese coast during a large US/Japanese joint exercise . It wasn’t detected until it broke surface even though it was probably monitoring US and Japanese warships for some time.

But there is no proof positive yet that the vessel in the latest incidence is a chinese sub.