Joint Russian/ Italian submarine

well a lot of nations not on Unkils beloved munna list would love get a half-dozen as extra insurance and to browbeat neighbours….Iran, Noko :diablo:
…taiwan which is unable to get anything from germany/france due to PRC pressure maybe able to hook up with russia for this. singapore could find some use to supplement the scorpene. north african nations, south africa, indonesia,
……everyone ought to be a equal-opportunity Klub user.

So? We already knew they were working on it. Russia has some more export sub designs underway of its own, namely, Piranya-T, Piranya-2, Project550 (P550), P650B,P650E, P750 etc. Of which P750B and E have a displacement of 920t, with main difference between the two being a closed cycle diesel engine for B and an AIP based on chemical oxygen-hydrogen (and of course batteries in both along with a diesel). E is also 1.5m longer, which is caused by the engine lay-out as its the only difference between the two. Other versions are smaller and lack the 4 cruisemissiles of P750. All versions have 4 533mm tubes and 8 400mm torpedoes. They can carry 12 mines in minedispencers, but for P750 it can end up with 24 mines.

I wonder how much this model resembles 750… Any pictures of the S1000 model? Here is some stuff to compare, no time to throw the rest in though.

The Piranya submarine proposals are not from the Rubin design bureau, but from the Malakhit naval design bureau.

The Piranya designs are not related to the Lada/Amur or any Fincantieri design.

I do think that these designs are very interesting and are potential competitors for the Amur 950 and this collaborative S1000. The only question is whether there is an export market for submarines that are this small?

Hmmm a little bit looks like the German 212-class and, surprise, this class have also an Air Independent Propulsion :rolleyes: 😀

Here it is 😉

More from:
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=1399206&C=navwar

Italy, Russia Move Ahead on Joint Diesel Subs
By TOM KINGTON, ROME And LYUBOV PRONINA, MOSCOW

Russian and Italian firms are working up technical drawings for a new diesel submarine for the export market, even as they start scrapping some of their own older subs.

Fincantieri and Russian submarine-builder Rubin are in the second phase of developing a 1,000-ton conventional submarine, the S1000, which will be equipped with an Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) system said to be capable of staying underwater for 10 days. The project was launched by the Italian government in April 2004.

“Rubin presented a blueprint of the submarine to the Italian Defense Ministry six months ago and is now at the second stage, preparing the technical draft that should be ready by the end of next year,” said Yuri Kormilitsyn, chief designer of non-nuclear submarines at the Rubin Central Design Bureau, St. Petersburg.

It was too early to say when the sub might begin construction, Kormilitsyn said.

Fincantieri declined to comment on its progress, but has said the S1000 will be 40 to 50 meters long with a top speed of 14 knots, a crew of 16 and maximum depth of 250 meters. The S1000 will be designed for anti-submarine warfare, intelligence-surveillance-reconnaissance, and transporting up to 12 special forces troops. Other missions could include anti-surface warfare, mine-laying and air operations support.

An Italian industrial source said Fincantieri is developing a new fuel-cell-powered AIP system.

Rubin’s Kormilitsyn confirmed that Italy would provide the S1000’s AIP technology.

The Italian source said the AIP system would not be the same one that is going on two U-212-class subs, being built under license from Germany’s HDW by Fincantieri for delivery to the Italian Navy this decade.

“Part of Fincantieri’s agreement with the Germans is not to export that technology,” the Italian source said.

But other technology is intended to flow between the two partners in the new sub. “We are teaching but also learning,” said the Italian source.

“We are interested in Western technology and could share some of the technologies that we have,” Kormilitsyn added.

He said the new sub would combine Russian work on the Amur 950 submarine and Italy’s experience with the U-212.

The S1000 is Rubin’s first tie-up with a Western firm, Kormilitsyn said, but the firm also is seeking deals with other European submarine builders.

“There is an integration between Russia and NATO, and Italy took up the flag,” he said. “We have given our proposals to Germany and France, but negotiations have been slow.”

Neither the Russian or the Italian navies appear likely to order the S1000 in the near future.

“Our own Lada-class submarine covers the demand for the domestic navy,” Kormilitsyn said. The Russian Navy is satisfied with the fourth-generation Project 677 sub, a 1,600-ton diesel-electric known as the Project 1650 Amur for export, he said.

And Italy had planned to buy four U-212s, but budget cuts have restricted the order to two. So Fincantieri has its eye on exports. And like the Russians, it also has considered tie-ups with Germany. In an article about the S1000 in its in-house journal in September 2004, the firm wrote that it had previously sought and failed to sign a development deal with HDW.

“Cooperation with Russia is therefore an alternative opportunity,” the article said. “Apart from having relevant know-how regarding development and products, Russia still has an undeniable political and commercial influence in various areas of the international market (Asia, the Arabian Gulf and southeast Asia) … The cooperation must aim at this market with modern, medium-sized — and therefore less expensive — products, in which a mix of innovation and modern Western technology can improve the chance of success in an important niche.”

How To Dismantle Atomic Subs

As Italy and Russia mull new subs, Italian firms are now separately engaged in dismantling retired Soviet nuclear subs. Italian firms including Fincantieri and Finmeccanica have started work worth up to 50 million euros ($58.5 million) to dismantle nuclear submarines, part of a 2003 Italo-Russian agreement.

Antonio Gozzi, chief executive of Italian steel firm Duferco, said Dec. 2 on the sidelines of a Russia-Italy business forum in Moscow that Duferco, along with four other Italian companies including Finmeccanica and Fincantieri, are helping Russia to dismantle submarines on the Kola Peninsula.

He said Italy is on track to dismantle 12 to 13 Russian submarines, with a first tranche of work worth 40 million to 50 million euros under way.

The work stems from a G-8 commitment to help Russia dismantle its nuclear arsenal. In 2003, Italy agreed to spend 360 million euros to work on nuclear subs and organize the safe burying of radioactive materials.

Italy is seeking to bury old Italian nuclear waste alongside Soviet sub waste, Italian newspaper Il Sole 24 Ore reported Dec. 11.

So? We already knew they were working on it. Russia has some more export sub designs underway of its own, namely, Piranya-T, Piranya-2, Project550 (P550), P650B,P650E, P750 etc. Of which P750B and E have a displacement of 920t, with main difference between the two being a closed cycle diesel engine for B and an AIP based on chemical oxygen-hydrogen (and of course batteries in both along with a diesel). E is also 1.5m longer, which is caused by the engine lay-out as its the only difference between the two. Other versions are smaller and lack the 4 cruisemissiles of P750. All versions have 4 533mm tubes and 8 400mm torpedoes. They can carry 12 mines in minedispencers, but for P750 it can end up with 24 mines.

I wonder how much this model resembles 750… Any pictures of the S1000 model? Here is some stuff to compare, no time to throw the rest in though.