Ju-87 Stuka

Variants not known

I have to say that that the type of Stuka’s flown by Heinrich wasn’t brought to my attention, sorry! He flew this aircraft exclusively until his transfer out of the Eastern front as I have posted earlier. One fact I can tell you was that he wasn’t a tall man probably only about 5ft 5ins tall. To this end I did ask if he found it a problem (his stature and such a large aircraft) and in his matter of fact way just said he could adjust the seat!

I got to wondering….your friend…what variants of Stuka did he fly or did he ever tell you specifically?

At least one other Battle of Britain Stuka crew carried more exotic sidearms. locals picking through the remains of a JU87 shot down at Portesham in Dorset found bits of an MP40, the grip an folding stock of which were hanging in the local Blacksmith’s shop back in the 60s. Neither blacksmith nor MP40 are there now unfortunately.

Not an mp 40

Thought that might have been the case, similar situation with mums family coming from Pommern.

He flew with an MP40 slung under his suit? that must have been so uncomfortable, LOL.
Great story too thanks

As described by Heinrich this weapon wasnt like an mp 40. Now Im not an expert on weapons but what was described to me in some detail would have looked more like the modern Heckler and Koch weapons carried nowadays by so many Police Officers etc. It had to be small because I remember asking him about how the wearer of such a weapon would fare if they had to use a parachute. If Heinrich’s escape by chute is anything to go by . there would appear to be little or no restrictions. I don’t remember any specofic reply to this question.
Does anyone out there know maybe just what this sidearm was?

I own the Osprey book in the Combat Aircraft series on the Devastator and it’s quite a good read.

Much is always mentioned of the terrible losses they took at Midway, but little is said of the success the Devastator had at Coral Sea.

Not very many were made so their impact on the war wasn’t as great, but the book is a very interesting study on a rather maligned aircraft.

Interesting to see the conversation around a type that gets pidgeon holed quite easily with “heavy losses” and “terror weapon” etc etc. It was in front line use 1939-1945, was well suited for the Eastern Front and I think its use in the Battle Of Britian is worth evaluating again. It was one of the first dedicated tactical aircraft, used in one of the first strategic campaigns. Compare this with the US use of the F-105 in Vietnam to attack targets in the North (especially with B-52’s attacking troop concentrations etc in the South)

Had the invasion gone ahead, the JU-87 would have torn through the UK at the head of Panzer columns. I can’t see why it wouldn’t have scored a few kills, I’m sure other aircraft that suffered even heavier losses managed to. The Battle and the Devastator for example suffered horrible losses with less of a contribution than the JU-87 but I’m sure they managed a couple along the way.

Some very thought-provoking posts here.

I’ve often read that despite it not being very agile in relation to fighter, that it was in fact fairly agile for its size.

Ollie did your friend happen to remark on what it was actually like to fly the airplane itself. What did he like about it? What did he not like?

In any case, in my reading, there were a few brief mentions of Stukas getting an air-to-air kill here and there. I was rather surprised as it mentioned both P-39’s and La-5’s as the alleged victims. I can’t imagine a Stuka getting an air-to-air kill and indeed these may have been only claims, but it does bring up an interesting point of discussion.

Has anyone ever heard of Stukas getting air-to-air victories? What about their rear gunners?

Clausewitz calls it friction, it referes to the fact that in war nothing can be truly accurately predicted, that nothing is perfect. The weather will change, mechanical objects will fail, humans will make mistakes etc etc. The consequence will be that an outcome decided as a certainty by a scientific analysis will be anything but certain, rather it will will be a victim of circumstances beyond the control of all those who had previously sought to determine the outcome as absolute.

In short, a Stuka is perfectly capable of achieving an Air to Air kill irrelevant of any technical inferiority it may have compared to its prey.

I am sure that I read somewhere that the JU87 was used as an impromptu fighter during the FAA attacks on Petsamo and Kirkenes in 1941, no mention of it here though.

Ollie, fascinating stories. Thanks for sharing!

Hans-Ulrich Rudel shot down 9 aircraft in his career. As he flew mostly Stuka, I would assume that some of these were from within a Ju-87. However, Im sure the forumites will correct this if incorrect.

Hi Mondariz,

I’m not correcting ya; just supplementing onto what you’ve said

Hans Ulrich Rudel also flew the ‘Langnasen-Dora’

Those of us who circulate in IPMS circles, are aware that he used to fly a
‘190 D.9/R-5 as the Geschwaderkommodore of S.G.2 out of Grosshain in 1945

The R.5 configuration meant it had twin-ETC 71 bomb-racks on each wing, just outboard from the u/c legs

Rudel’s own D.9 apparently wore an RLM.82/83 scheme (over RLM.76)

It’s distinctive fuselage marking makes it rather noticeable, as it wore a Black-Chevron & twin-bar… (these, either side of the Black-outlined Balkankreuz) over a BROAD open/bare patch of RLM.76 LichtBlau (along the fuselage) to both accomodate & accentuate his GeschKd’r marking for I.D. purposes.

(All the fuselage markings were in Black-outline)

You can bet your ‘Bottom-Dollar’ that most of his 9 aerial victories were in this, HOWEVER, I DO have a 1950’s copy of his book (sadly, not to hand, at the moment !!!!!!!!!) & I.I.R.C he did describe taking out a Soviet fighter in his ’87 (circa) mid-way thru the book.

I’ll keep an eye out for the book, over the coming weeks & as & when I locate it, will quote the page No. & title (again, it escapes me, like the book & it’s Cobalt-blue cover !!!!!!!!!!!! LOL)

I hope the Dora-9 info’ is of some use ?

‘H.C’

He did indeed settle in the uk. The reason was mainly because he was not allowed to return to his homeland until 1955, where he discovered that the Russians had taken over, (I presume he was from the East,) he discovered that there were no survivors of his family so he returned to the Portsmouth area. The interesting bit is just how he managed to survive in England, also becoming a local businessman. As I have said earlier he was shot down over the Isle Of Wight, when taken prisoner he was armed’. The Germans with the knowledge gained on the Eastern front found that a pistol was next to useless for downed airmen in hostile territory, therefore they began carrying a small machine pistol hung from a lanyard under their flying suit . This lanyard hung from the sholder and was tucked under the armpit. Heinrich told me that when he regained consciousness he was aware that the gun still nestled under his clothing! On inspection he found that all of the ammunition had been removed however. He informed me that he asked why it had not been removed by the authorities to be told that as an officer they had to wait until he wished to surrender it. This he duly did to an English Major who believe it or not wouldn’t accept it unless he could pay for it! Heinrich told me that he didn’t have any knowledge of our monetary system so when the sum of £30 was handed over he became quite well off instantly. He told me that it was with this money that he was able to start a ‘Danish Bakery’ when I asked him why? he just said “would you buy bread from a German”? He must have got the idea from when as a POW he worked for the local Tom Parker Dairy riding a delivery bike taking milk and bread to locals .
He married an Irish woman and settled into his business. That was until he discovered that he had cancer behind his heart. Believe it or not he could only get a specialised operation back in Germany for this life threatening cancer. The op removed some of his ribs from the back and was successful, Heinrichs luck was continuing. He had this operation in what was West Germany, where the local RAF station (sorry I don’t remember him telling me just which one) found out about his wartime exploits. Whilst convalescing he was invited to a dinner at this base. He told me he thought it was just an informal visit, he was soon to find out that a full mess dinner had been laid on in his honour. At the end of this dinner he was asked to address the many officers present. what he told me was that as he was unprepared he just raised his glass and said “Gentlemen what a shame this is not 1940”!
Apparently they all cheered……..The sad thing is that I lost contact with Heinrich so I dont know if or when lady luck finally deserted him.
I hope this forum is the correct place for telling this story, thanks for reading it any way.
OLLIE

Thought that might have been the case, similar situation with mums family coming from Pommern.

He flew with an MP40 slung under his suit? that must have been so uncomfortable, LOL.
Great story too thanks

Heinrich uhl

He did indeed settle in the uk. The reason was mainly because he was not allowed to return to his homeland until 1955, where he discovered that the Russians had taken over, (I presume he was from the East,) he discovered that there were no survivors of his family so he returned to the Portsmouth area. The interesting bit is just how he managed to survive in England, also becoming a local businessman. As I have said earlier he was shot down over the Isle Of Wight, when taken prisoner he was armed’. The Germans with the knowledge gained on the Eastern front found that a pistol was next to useless for downed airmen in hostile territory, therefore they began carrying a small machine pistol hung from a lanyard under their flying suit . This lanyard hung from the sholder and was tucked under the armpit. Heinrich told me that when he regained consciousness he was aware that the gun still nestled under his clothing! On inspection he found that all of the ammunition had been removed however. He informed me that he asked why it had not been removed by the authorities to be told that as an officer they had to wait until he wished to surrender it. This he duly did to an English Major who believe it or not wouldn’t accept it unless he could pay for it! Heinrich told me that he didn’t have any knowledge of our monetary system so when the sum of £30 was handed over he became quite well off instantly. He told me that it was with this money that he was able to start a ‘Danish Bakery’ when I asked him why? he just said “would you buy bread from a German”? He must have got the idea from when as a POW he worked for the local Tom Parker Dairy riding a delivery bike taking milk and bread to locals .
He married an Irish woman and settled into his business. That was until he discovered that he had cancer behind his heart. Believe it or not he could only get a specialised operation back in Germany for this life threatening cancer. The op removed some of his ribs from the back and was successful, Heinrichs luck was continuing. He had this operation in what was West Germany, where the local RAF station (sorry I don’t remember him telling me just which one) found out about his wartime exploits. Whilst convalescing he was invited to a dinner at this base. He told me he thought it was just an informal visit, he was soon to find out that a full mess dinner had been laid on in his honour. At the end of this dinner he was asked to address the many officers present. what he told me was that as he was unprepared he just raised his glass and said “Gentlemen what a shame this is not 1940”!
Apparently they all cheered……..The sad thing is that I lost contact with Heinrich so I dont know if or when lady luck finally deserted him.
I hope this forum is the correct place for telling this story, thanks for reading it any way.
OLLIE

To continue my previous input about Heinrich Uhl.

Further to the aerial fighting with the Stuka, Heinrich told me about his tank busting exploits. I was informed that certainly In the early days of the Russian operation this was looked upon by stuka pilots akin to what we understand by the expression ‘like shooting fish in a barrel!’ He told me that as Russian tanks advanced in line abreast he picked on a target and engaged it, when the desired result was achieved he would side slip the Stuka and engage the next target. This was apparently the order of the day and he expressed that multiple kills could be achieved in this way. Once again I cannot substantiate this story but I will add that the stories were told to me in a matter of fact way. However flying the Stuka was not without It’s hazards. Heinrich suffered multiple wounds during his time on the Eastern Front, including a small calibre round that entered his neck and travelled upwards cutting a furrow on the inside of his skull until it exited his right Temple. Later with other wounds including being seriously burned he was retired from The Eastern front and re- deployed on He111 at StLo.France.
He was eventually shot down after raiding Southampton in 1944, parachuting from his aircraft onto the Isle of Wight. Unconscious he came to within a medical room in Parkhurst prison. He was running on luck and I think eventually he was glad to be out of the fighting. He did express that he didn’t like fighting the British it was the Russians he disliked!

What a lucky man, coming through all that. Did he settle in th UK post war?
Those guys should all have been made to write their memoirs

Actually according to “Ju-87 Stukageschwader 1937-1941” (i.e. Osprey Combat Aircraft #1) it was. I believe it was a Polish aircraft of some sort (not sure if it was a fighter), but I’d have to check the book to be sure. I read it a good while back and don’t remember all the details.

Wasn’t a Stuka the first aircraft to shoot something down during WW2?

More tales from a Stuka pilot

To continue my previous input about Heinrich Uhl.

Further to the aerial fighting with the Stuka, Heinrich told me about his tank busting exploits. I was informed that certainly In the early days of the Russian operation this was looked upon by stuka pilots akin to what we understand by the expression ‘like shooting fish in a barrel!’ He told me that as Russian tanks advanced in line abreast he picked on a target and engaged it, when the desired result was achieved he would side slip the Stuka and engage the next target. This was apparently the order of the day and he expressed that multiple kills could be achieved in this way. Once again I cannot substantiate this story but I will add that the stories were told to me in a matter of fact way. However flying the Stuka was not without It’s hazards. Heinrich suffered multiple wounds during his time on the Eastern Front, including a small calibre round that entered his neck and travelled upwards cutting a furrow on the inside of his skull until it exited his right Temple. Later with other wounds including being seriously burned he was retired from The Eastern front and re- deployed on He111 at StLo.France.
He was eventually shot down after raiding Southampton in 1944, parachuting from his aircraft onto the Isle of Wight. Unconscious he came to within a medical room in Parkhurst prison. He was running on luck and I think eventually he was glad to be out of the fighting. He did express that he didn’t like fighting the British it was the Russians he disliked!

Interesting information Ollie. Did your friend divulge any other details of flying the Stuka in general? Things he liked or didn’t like about it? Always great to hear first-hand accounts on the machines we spend so much time debating about.

I suppose that could be possible – and you might get a lucky few rounds in something important (engine, coolant, pilot)…

Stuka shoot downs

I had the pleasure of knowing a stuka pilot that flew alongside Rudel in Russia. He told me in one of our many conversations about shooting down Russian aircraft. He told me that the method employed was to fly relatively slowly, easy for a Stuka i know. Russian pilots aware of the rear gunner would overhaul the ju 87 by some distance and climb. At this point the russians would roll inverted and pull back on the stick to complete a near frontal pass. Heinrich Uhl the pilot of the stuka then told me it was possible to almost stall the aircraft drop a wing and apply power. this had the effect of sitting the aircraft on its tail. At this point he would engage the Russian if only fleetingly. He told me that the power of the aircraft made it almost hang on the prop whilst engaging his enemy. I have no way of knowing if this was a tall story or not, but he was very descriptive of these events.
Having been wounded many times Heinrich transferred from the Russian front to St Lo flying He111,and was eventually shot down some time in 1944 over the I.O.W. As an aside if anyone has any information on this gentleman I would be interested to hear from them.