Ju52/3m at Duxford

Ah o.k thanks Sideslip

Its still there.

Is the ‘Junkers 52’ or ‘Amiot AAC.1 Toucan’ still at Duxford or has it moved on to Poland now?

Might I suggest that rather than my previous suggestion that the stuff from Lambeth is going to be stacked up in the space available.That they will need to lay out the displays in a way that is accessible to visitors if you think what is on display in Lambeth and the floor area etc it takes up and then any suspended displays a lot of room will be needed to have the collection on public display.

Might I suggest if it is all stacked up with no easy viewing that there will be some arm chair pundits who will not be right happy and we will have reams of discussion on the why and wherefores of the IWM not thinking about the viewing public when they stripped everything out of Lambeth before the roof falls in and puts it half way up the country (not that Duxford is for one minute in fact its half way down the country for me)and put it in drafty hangars so no one can see them?.

As has been said everyone has their own point of view but can we at least have points of view that strike a happy medium and not be to radical or critical.Yes these large collections have input from us the rate payer and yes they have responsibilities but they also have a very large and cumbersome collection to manage and anyone with a small business knows it aint easy so they must have a complicated task to juggle.

I am sure that if those who feel very strongly on various points had to run these establishments for a month would view them in a slightly different light.

So perhaps we should cut them a little slack and wait and see what arrives and what they replace things with.It may be pleasant surprises ??

Good post. I am sure AirSpace and Hanger 5 will be used plus other areas. There is a lot to come out of Lambeth Road and the general idea is to get the IWM ready for the big 1914 anniversary events.

🙂 lobster

Firebex -there are indeed cases where greater co-operation between national collections could refresh and enhance collections. I would love to see the Single Pioneer on display at East Fortune in return for the loan of the GAL Cygnet to Hendon . There are other cases where aircraft in very long term store could be reviewed -for example the Ventura at Cosford has been stored for nearly thirty years -you have to ask would the potential effort and cost to restore the CASA 2-111 at Duxford be better spent getting something like the Ventura on display instead .

There are many other cases where both smaller and large collections could refine what they preserve and ensure that effort isnt wasted on duplication whilst significant aircraft slumber out of sight.

Thanks Twotter. So it seems as though all 65 objects are going to Duxford for “storage and conservation” so that sounds like Hangar 5 might get filled up. I wonder if the intention is to let the public view them or will Hangar 5 be closed?

More details here http://www.iwm.org.uk/visits/iwm-london/closures you may need to follow the links for precise lists etc.! 🙂

That doesn’t quite answer the question. Is the intention to place other than aeronautical exhibits in Hangar 5? In other words are they expecting more boats, guns and tanks or is it just the FW190 and the Mustang etc?

I thought the Lambeth stuff was going in Hangar 5, the restoration/Conservation hangar which is nearly empty? In any case what is expected to arrive I wonder?

Might I suggest that rather than my previous suggestion that the stuff from Lambeth is going to be stacked up in the space available.That they will need to lay out the displays in a way that is accessible to visitors if you think what is on display in Lambeth and the floor area etc it takes up and then any suspended displays a lot of room will be needed to have the collection on public display.

Might I suggest if it is all stacked up with no easy viewing that there will be some arm chair pundits who will not be right happy and we will have reams of discussion on the why and wherefores of the IWM not thinking about the viewing public when they stripped everything out of Lambeth before the roof falls in and puts it half way up the country (not that Duxford is for one minute in fact its half way down the country for me)and put it in drafty hangars so no one can see them?.

As has been said everyone has their own point of view but can we at least have points of view that strike a happy medium and not be to radical or critical.Yes these large collections have input from us the rate payer and yes they have responsibilities but they also have a very large and cumbersome collection to manage and anyone with a small business knows it aint easy so they must have a complicated task to juggle.

I am sure that if those who feel very strongly on various points had to run these establishments for a month would view them in a slightly different light.

So perhaps we should cut them a little slack and wait and see what arrives and what they replace things with.It may be pleasant surprises ??

As various people have pointed out -probably 99% of the population dont know the difference between a real Ju52 and a French one – I also wager that 95% percent of the population don’t know what a Ju52 is at all.

And 99.9% of the population probably couldn’t identify a single painting in any of the National Galleries but is that any reason to stop the tens of millions that are spent every year ‘saving’ paintings ‘for the nation’?

My view is as stated above, that of concern about losing a powerful artifact that can tell the story of that chapter of our history.

The ‘disgrace’ comment was not aimed directly at you (and we seem to agree on that point).

Not wishing to put words into your mouth you did seem to be suggesting that you’d rather see the Ju52 / Amiot preserved than the Airspeed Ambassador? I have no particular fondness for the Ambassador (apart from its engines) but it is the only survivor of the type and also a powerful artefact that tells a small chapter of our aviation history.

Anyway, you are (of course) entitled to your views so I hope you continue to post here.

I thought the Lambeth stuff was going in Hangar 5, the restoration/Conservation hangar which is nearly empty? In any case what is expected to arrive I wonder?

Had a quick look at the space available in hangar 4 at Duxford this morning and with the Varsity gone there would be more than enough space for the Ju/Amiot and Storch. I would like to think that had been considered prior to the disposal.

There might seem a lot of space in hangar 4 but as of next week most of the stuff from IWM display in central London is arriving at Duxford for a good twelve months whilst the building work takes place might I suggest application of a cigarette paper might be difficult when they have finished shoe horning everything into that large space you suggest.

Otherwise valuable aircraft might have to be placed outside in storage and I can just imagine the comments that would raise,As has been stated before by others its a sad fact that museums and collections have to strike a balance or at least to try to .There are still a lot of collections that struggle to have all their aircraft undercover and that in itself is a cause for great comment.

Some time ago some of us suggested why not have a national rotation policy around collections and museums.Aircraft would not sit in the same spot in the same museum for years and visitors getting bored because nothing new was to be seen but small and medium sized exhibits where rotated around collections on a shared basis then museums would not be seen or commented on as being stagnant or nothing ever new but would in fact have changes taking place and visitors on a regular basis no matter what part of the country they where in would get the chance to see something different or new.And the collections would not have to spend lots of money on acquiring new exhibits or get slated when because they had no choice the only way to get new stuff in or make changes is to go through a disposal process first.

Or am I perhaps suggesting something to simple or radical ???

And before someone starts jumping up and down on their pogo stick I am not quoting or referring to anyone’s previous quote or comments.I am merely making an observation

Lovely

You have your views and I have mine.

All the best

JBS – Don’t really see where the ‘condescending’ part is in my post .

Your post :”A question, why would the IWM give a hoot about the Ambassador when it is not theirs?” is somewhat insulting to the IWM when they have clearly housed the aircraft during its restoration stage -contributed in kind undoubtedly to its restoration and given the aircraft a home which I doubt many other collections would have on the dispersal of the Dan Air collection. The IWM in housing the Comet -Britannia-Corcorde and York undercover clearly give a ‘hoot’ about preserving aircraft that don’t belong to them .

As for the Amiot – the U.K doesnt need to preserve two license built Ju52’s undercover – it was a dead end in terms of technology and the type is more than adequately represented by one in the U.K. We saw no outcry of emotion in the U.K when various imported examples have left private owners for sale abroad and I predict this example apart from its interest from enthusiasts is of little consequence to the public as a whole.

As various people have pointed out -probably 99% of the population dont know the difference between a real Ju52 and a French one – I also wager that 95% percent of the population don’t know what a Ju52 is at all .
Whether the Amiot disposal impacts visitor numbers at Duxford I dont know – I do feel however that a higher percentage of the population will know what a Hercules is if one is acquired and undoutedly identify with its contribution to the U.K military in the last forty years.

Had a quick look at the space available in hangar 4 at Duxford this morning and with the Varsity gone there would be more than enough space for the Ju/Amiot and Storch. I would like to think that had been considered prior to the disposal.

What we need is someone here to win the mega €uro £ottery, then fund the building of a new single bay General Service Shed with ‘Belfast truss system’…

…that’s if the IWM would want valuable empty space rebuilt on…

…and I didn’t object to losing my lunchtime view…

JBS -Duxford house DAS airframes inside in a number of cases so they are concerned about their condition.
What does concern me is the perception that something negative will happen to the Amiot -I feel by sending the machine to Poland we are fillling a hole in their recent history and acknowledging that the job we are trying to do in the U.K with the number of aircraft in preservation needs review.

Hi David,
Thank you for the condescending tone of your reply, much appreciated 🙂
Please do not put words in my mouth if this was aimed at me, I never once stated that I was concerned about the destination of the ‘Ju-52’/Amiot, I am sure they will treasure and look after her. My point has always been about the loss of an artifact from the UK that paints part of the story of an important chapter of our national history.
The decision does not sit well with me as someone who funds the collection, i.e. a UK tax payer, and I am within my rights to express that view which is what I am doing.

Depends what the ‘non IWM’ airframes are; would I rather see the Avro York, de Havilland Comet or BAC Concorde outside to keep the Amiot / Ju52 inside at Duxford? Hell no!
Anyway, it is a shame, not a national disgrace! Besides there is another Ju52 (or is it an Amiot?) at Cosford…
…in British Airways scheme! :confused:
(I know some ex-Luftwaffe Ju52 examples were operated by the British post-war and I know a former ‘British Airways’ existed pre-war but are these one and the same?)

Hi Creaking Door,
My view is as stated above, that of concern about losing a powerful artifact that can tell the story of that chapter of our history.
I do not know if you mean me when you say disgrace, but I do not think I have made use of that word in my posts. I am disappointed yes, disgraced no.

It may come as a shock to some folk on here but there are some of us out there that have differing views to your own.

I have just remembered why I stopped posting on this forum some time ago.

All the best,

For as long as it would take to sell the Jacobs powered example!

Wouldn’t that then mean that East Fortune would have 2 ‘Storch’ derivatives? One with an Argus and one with a radial.