Justice

Home Secretary – but has he got the shoes?;);):p

You have the job, and the power, now instigate it, but beware of the P.C. Brigade, somewon may get wet;)
Jim.

Lincoln .7
:diablo:

but remember there will be innocents who have dye on them that would be arrested for no just cause. Then they would have to employ a Brief to defend them, when there is no need, perhaps cannons with video recording as to what they sprayed .

hi Lincoln an excellent point and as Home Secretary ;)… I have allowed for that.

At a large gathering that is appearing to get out of control a public address system will be used to request all persons present to disperse. By all means advise on suitable routes to leave by, but give this warning and mean it.

Give the demonstrators a reasonable time to vacate the area but after the time period has expired, then all those that remain will be liable to arrest for behaviour that is likely to cause a breach of the peace! (I love this power)

To avoid all the complaints of police brutality (some of which might be perfectly valid) I as Home Secretary have recommended the water cannon option to try and avoid these allegations. In my opinion (as Home Secretary:D) it is unfair to put our Police in harms way, not allow them adequate means to either carry out their lawful duty or defend themselves… (I am thinking about all the fencing, iron bars, wooden type spears, bottles, bricks etc etc that are regularly seen being thrown at our police officers.) They need our protection and more important…. Our support!

The arrests can be made as the offenders try to leave the scene or at a later more suitable opportunity. Perhaps have the dye contain something similar to this product that would then establish the person with the specific water cannon

I totally agree with those that suggest it might spray the innocent. It would be wrong to use this instrument UNLESS the necessary and appropriate warning has been given and it would be wrong not to video all usage of this option to make sure that if someone has somehow been sprayed inadvertently, then that act has been recorded.

At the moment I get the impression our police are struggling to deal with this issue. If this option does not appeal to folks then we need constructive ideas for alternate options? 🙂

Just think of all those thousands of cameras that would get ruined :diablo::diablo:

I would love to volunteer to be the master cannon operator :D:D

“You call that a water pistol??

This is MY water pistol!”

I have no idea what this thing is…. It just appeals to my sense of humour :dev2:;)

We always agree to disagree about what we have agreed to disagree about, therefore we end up agreeing to agree – even if we have disagreed, we finally do agree – err to agree…….:eek::eek:

You missed the point, Linc. I was reminding you of your thread in which, so far as I recall, we agreed, as did many other members.:)

Pete. We allways agree, even when we don’t.:p
Jim.

Lincoln .7

You missed the point, Linc. I was reminding you of your thread in which, so far as I recall, we agreed, as did many other members.:)

I don’t see any incoming – I would be surprised if many disagreed….and Linc – have youy forgotten the National Service thread a few weeks ago? – I think it mas yours, wasn’t it?!!;):)

Hi Pete, Like a Trout to a dry fly, I just knew you would rise to the bit about National Service, but I am sticking to my guns on that one.:p
Jim.

Lincoln .7

glojoe. Your a wise guy with a sensible head on your shoulders, and I agree with what you say. It’s the same old story, a minority causing trouble for the majority. I also agree with water cannons and dye, but remember there will be innocents who have dye on them that would be arrested for no just cause. Then they would have to employ a Brief to defend them, when there is no need, perhaps cannons with video recording as to what they sprayed .

I do agree with a gap year, to help pay for your needs whilst at Uni. The trouble is, and this is just my opinion, is that many students take easy subjects that they can pass with ease, but won’t be of any use whatsoever when they want to get a job, just because you have a degree will not guarantee a job at the end. We need more folks with qualifications, in Science, Doctors, what I am trying to say is folks like Einstien, who are very knowledgeable in subjects that are badly needed at this moment in time.
Harping back to myself, I have to attend 5 Hospitals, miles and miles away from each other to see a specialist that only one specific hospital has, and another hozzy to see another specialist. Do you see where I am coming from on this?.Certainly NO incoming from me on this one.
Jim.

Lincoln .7
😉

I don’t see any incoming – I would be surprised if many disagreed….and Linc – have youy forgotten the National Service thread a few weeks ago? – I think it mas yours, wasn’t it?!!;):)

There are two sides to any argument, whilst there was a core element of anarchists and trouble makers during the protests, only certain tabloids wanted to sensationalise and label the events as riots. However due to police methods a lot of people were driven to frustration and regardless of the severity of their actions (some just trying to peacefully protest but being in the wrong place at the wrong time) they all have records now.

Totally agree, there are indeed two sides to every story.

The recognised leaders of the march sat down with the police and other local authorities to sort out a route for the demonstrators to march and also to ‘demonstrate’. This route was agreed by all parties and space was allowed to ensure the ability of all to demonstrate peacefully.

Traffic had been diverted away from the area and all would have been well with the World. IF only they had stuck to their own leaders agreed route.

When a minority of protesters decided to deviate from this route and ‘do there own thing’ they were given options:

Move back to the lawful demonstration or be detained…

If those that were detained were ‘innocent’ then why did they deliberately deviate from that agreed route. This route was not enforced on anyone, it was a route mutually agreed by ALL parties..

There was a choice and by leaving that route they made that choice.

To suggest the ‘innocent’ were detained is I guess typical of what we all have to listen to. The ‘innocent’ demonstrated’ in an agreed manner and then went home… Those that did their own thing were victims of their own decisions, but I guess in the age we live then no one accepts the consequences of these decisions.

We all witnessed the criminal damage being caused, plus the obstructing of the highway and yes it was a minority and yes not all those that had disobeyed the instructions of their own leadership were committing damage, but they had made their choice. Their choice, their decisions and there were consequences.

I accept that there will be deaf folks that cannot hear and blind folks that cannot see and for those folks I guess we could suggest they were in the wrong place, at the wrong time, but were there any there that fitted into those categories?

I personally would like to see the use of water cannon with dyed liquid that can be sprayed onto all demonstrators that wilfully break the laws of our land and yes that includes marchers that deliberately and wilfully obstruct the highway… Mark them with dye and arrest them at leisure.

I am all in favour of peaceful demonstrations, the right to peacefully protest, but I am also all in favour of ambulances wanting to go about their business without our highways being wilfully obstructed, old folks to walk our public footpath and the ordinary public to go about their business without fear of getting involved in these events.

Hyde Park is steeped in tradition regarding the freedom of free speech and long may that continue. 🙂 The parks are ideal locations to be seen and to be heard 😀

I will now gracefully step off my soap box and be prepared for the incoming

There are two sides to any argument, whilst there was a core element of anarchists and trouble makers during the protests, only certain tabloids wanted to sensationalise and label the events as riots. However due to police methods a lot of people were driven to frustration and regardless of the severity of their actions (some just trying to peacefully protest but being in the wrong place at the wrong time) they all have records now.

Looking at the way the government is shafting all the public services, NHS, Police, Fire, Education, Child Services, what other realistic option did these young people have to get their voice heard?

I do concede that some went too far.

As for the cases you mention Lincoln, we were all young once but that does not excuse the actions in the hospital for mummy and daddy shouting too loudly to the detriment of the care of others who were far more in need of the attention such as yourself. And the guy in the car park…hard labour or national service would sort him out.

Hi. I agree 100% with what you say, Yes, I was more than P****D off the night I was rushed into hozzy, I never want sympathy, I was just getting over the point that “Seemingly” because they had a plumb in their mouth, they got their drunken daughter seen before myself who was there first, its supposed to be a Triage system.Anyway, enough of that, Drunks, druggies, and pushers should pay for ANY medical treatment they recieve as a result of their own self induced problems. I agree, I was young, (I think?) a long time ago, and did things that would have landed me in the proverbial many times, no way was I whiter than white, but at least we never set out to deliberately get drunk, mainly I suppose truth be known we coudn’t afford it anyway, but we never damaged or hurt anyone or damaged property etc, we have gone way too far the P.C. way, and should take a step backwards, and get things into a more sensible perspective and rectify where we have gone wrong.
And I know I am going to be ducking incoming, but bring back National Service, it’s disiplin thats gone down the drain, along with respect.
Rant over, going to peel tates for dinner,;)
Jim.
Lincoln .7
:diablo:

I think there is a debate to be had about further/higher education, university and college courses, as well as about cuts in spending, but not really on this thread. I think we have already covered the ground elsewhere anyway.

We can agree that a minority behaved as hooligans and deserved to be punished.

Doesn’t matter whether you go to uni or not now, the job market for the young is pretty grim. And at least by going to uni they are firstly trying to do something to improve their situation instead of sponging off the system from the age of 16 and secondly do stand a better chance of getting a job even if the final career is not in the same area that the subject field.

Anyway what is wrong with ‘wasting a year’ before college/uni continuing education? I took a year out when I was studying to raise the cash to go to uni many years ago, likewise I have family members now who have taken a year out to firstly assess where they are in life, secondly what they want to do with their lives and thirdly get a job to help pay for their education.

I wonder how many of those young people are studying subjects for which there is little likelihood of a job, following graduation, and who will then be kept by the feckless taxpayer. And I wonder how many of them wasted a year before starting college………..:)

There are two sides to any argument, whilst there was a core element of anarchists and trouble makers during the protests, only certain tabloids wanted to sensationalise and label the events as riots. However due to police methods a lot of people were driven to frustration and regardless of the severity of their actions (some just trying to peacefully protest but being in the wrong place at the wrong time) they all have records now.

Looking at the way the government is shafting all the public services, NHS, Police, Fire, Education, Child Services, what other realistic option did these young people have to get their voice heard?

I do concede that some went too far.

As for the cases you mention Lincoln, we were all young once but that does not excuse the actions in the hospital for mummy and daddy shouting too loudly to the detriment of the care of others who were far more in need of the attention such as yourself. And the guy in the car park…hard labour or national service would sort him out.

Trouble is though Baz, they will get away with their”Crimes” as we Brits have become used to these so called students, and accept it because they are students. Last Aug, when rushed to A&E I was in a curtained cubical, and these students had just got their exam results. A young girl in an evening dress was put in the cubical next to me, and she was puking up all over herself, the bedding etc, as she had passed her exams. Her parents arrived, it was obvious they were very well off, and well spoken. Suddenly, even though I was in agony and not been seen by anyone, a plethora of DRs etc attended to this stupit idiot who was being sick, even whilst being examined by the Drs.
IMHO ALL drunks who take up the NHSs valuable recourses should be made to PAY for their treatment.
Last Friday, I saw a Police cars in Tescoes car park, with 2 Police cars and several Police there, I saw them search a man and his car, he was arrested and carted away. I asked a ember of the Tescoes staff what was going on, and he said, the chap was heating heroin up on a spoon with a ciggy lighter, prior to injecting himself, he was apparently injecting himself as the Law arrived.
I just hope next time he O.Ds himself. and saves the NHS time and trouble.
And before the bleeding hearts start off, saying he can’t help it, because it’s a habit, no one held a gun to his head and forced him to take drugs.
After 30 yrs on the job, they deserve all they get.
Jim.

Lincoln .7