KB976. Testing

I thought as I started writing this, generally speaking, I’m with Moggy but having thought about it, I’m not sure.

Certain paraffin burners I like to see, up to around 1960 I suppose, probably because I personally am of identical vintage to the Vulcan. Any modern ones I have no interest at all.

Aircraft outside I thought I agreed with until I remembered my first visit to Old Warden, taken by my parents (more accurately, Dad, and Mum and sister came too) in around 1967 I guess.
Just inside the gate, tied down and looking very tired and sad were what I now know to to be a Spitfire XI and a Sea Hurricane. Both, many years later, were returned to airworthiness.

I think this means I disagree!

If your policy of not displaying aircraft outdoors had been applied in full for years, all of the ex-gate guardian Spitfires which are now airworthy would have been scrapped years ago.

Unlike cancer, corrosion and rust can be repaired. Man built it, man can rebuild it. Given enough time and money.

Willow

You forget – I’m an old chap.

Paraffin burners have to work really hard to get onto my list of things I want to look at. 😉

Seriously though I am very, very against externally displayed aircraft. I love most aircraft and watching them rot is like seeing a loved-one being ravaged by cancer. You think so much of them, but for their sake you wish they’d slip away quietly and peacefully and you didn’t have the pain of watching them, mere shadows of what they were.

And anyway, if you want to get people excited you only have to mention the Vulcan
😉

Moggy

Moggy, a quick question.

Do you actually like historic aeroplanes?

I’m beginning to wonder.

Willow

Originally posted by Willow
no-one says that because there is already a Vulcan we do not need another. Willow

Ah that’s not quite true. That’s my position on the Vulcan too. Keep one or two indoors for semi-posterity, put the rusting outdoor hulks out of their misery and sell the remains as commemorative saucepans

Moggy

The point I am making is in reply to Moggys comment about there already being a Lincoln on display at Cosford so why do we need another. I was citing an example of another famous type with very little actual combat history. Yet no-one says that because there is already a Vulcan we do not need another.
It is selfish to think along these lines. I disagree for the following reasons….

i) Not everyone lives within easy reach of any 1 particular museum.

ii) Each aircraft (especially in the case of this Lincoln) has it’s own story to tell.

iii) People whose friends or family were killed flying in Lincolns would, I’m sure, claim it to be an important type.

and finally…..

iv) If, heaven forbid, the aircraft at Cosford was lost in an accident, there would be none in the UK.
And don’t say it can’t happen. Look at the aircraft that were lost in the hangar fires at Paris and at CWH at Hamilton.

A better example may have been that there is a very well preserved Shackelton in Manchester. Does that mean that there is no need to preserve another?

I’m sure museums such as Newark would love to have the Lincoln, if only because it provides a close link to the Lancaster.

Maybe if the owners could be contacted, they would be prepared to swap it for another airframe, or something else (money)?

Willow

sooo………..

So what does a vulcan have to do with th remains of the lanc and lincoln Willow??
Please stay on tpic..

There’s a perfectly good Vulcan on display at Hendon, that type saw less action than the Lincoln. Why do we need another?

Willow

The Lincoln was pretty important if you were bombing terrorists
during the twelve year ‘Operation Firedog’ in Malaya .
It was also useful as a testbed for a myriad of aero engines and various aerofoil sections with various companies.

photos

David I would like to see soem of your photos ofthe lanc lincoln sections
Pete
can you email them to me?

There’s a perfectly good Lincoln, under cover at Cosford.

Why would we need another of this unimportant type taking up display space?

Discuss.

Moggy

KB976 just after she arrived at Strathallan , taken by Der Fleming

The Lincoln is privately owned so there is very little that the BAPC could actually do. The function of the BAPC is as an advisory group to members and indeed a lobby to government etc.
They do provide loans to members to assist in the purchase of aircraft and equipment.
The Lincoln has been offered to a BAPC member group at
least once in the past and they declined. The current status
of her is very sad but she belongs to an individual and they can pretty much do as they see with her.

I’ve joined this a bit late, but I am appalled by the state of affairs with the Lincoln. As has been mentioned in another thread, the Comet 4 at Bruntingthorpe had an export ban slapped on it so somebody in office must be taking an interest in historic British aviation. Why hasn’t the same body taken control of this situation.
There must be a ‘big’ list of historic aircraft in the UK.
What about the BAPC? Do they still exist? Instead of issuing ID numbers to replicas, why aren’t they involved in a ‘real’ situation?

In many ways it would be better to restore the Lincoln than another Lanc as it is so much rarer. I do realise however that the Lanc is of much greater historical importance.

Is there any commonality between the Lincoln and Shackelton? I know Shacks are rare, but it would be worth losing one if it would save the Lincoln.

Willow

Peter – the airframes at Sandtoft belong to the Imperial Aviation
Group and it’s members. For the purposes of this exercise you can consider them to be a company. Regards the Lancaster KB994 – there isn’t a wing centre section i.e complete in my definition at Sandtoft of the Lancaster but I will look again at my photographs.
Regards the information on the Lincoln I assisted in the research for the paragraph or so in W&R 18. The nose of Lancaster B.7 TW911 was fitted to enable an easier exit in the event of an emergency . This apparantly was a fairly standard ‘mod’ carried out to trials Lincoln’s. The current state of affairs is a complete shame.

Lancaster lincoln………

Guys,
KB994 was a complete fuselage from in front of the windshield to the rear turret ounting. It did have a centre section attached but the inboard wing sections were cut off. If the centre section was not fitted, it would not have been a complete fuselage. The lincoln centre section is blatantly obvious due to the larger engine firewalls compared to the ones fitted to lancasters.

If anyone knows or finds out who owns these and what they intend to do with them I would really like to know. Dont hold your breath for imperial aviation group or its meembers to do anything with it.

The original cockpit section of the Lincoln is ‘allegedly’ at North Weald and yes I would dearly like to see her preserved as a complete machine again. As an aside some friends of mine were offered her as a complete machine minus engines by Doug Arnold.
What a pity they didn’t take up the offer -she would have been on display by now in a safe and secure home. For the purposes of this exercise I will keep them nameless

“Preservation” Group.

I think they should be called the “lets buy random aeroplanes that take our fancy when we dont actually have any resources to do anything with them” group.

doesnt have the same ring to it i guess though.

Could the Linocln be restored using the Lanc cockpit section….?

what happened to its own nose/cockpit?

I dunno if I’m alone on this one,but to be frank I’m not TOO concerned about the Lanc bits at Sandhoft.It’s certainly a shame to leave those bits about the place and do nothing about them,but to me the Lincoln components are more important when you consider the number of Lincolns that are left (one at Cosford, one in storage awaiting restoration in Argentina),and then there’s always that Fairey Gannet!
I don’t like to criticise preservation groups,but IAG are becoming something of a bad joke and something ought to be done pretty swiftly if we’re not to lose some important airframes and components.
This is another one of those cases where you wish there was some legal authority behind somebody like BAPC so that airframes couldn’t be treated this way.What are the chances of that ever happenning I wonder…

The section i saw at Sandtoft looked very very much like a lanc centre section, although not all of it i must add was present. This was aswell as the Linc centre section. Ill ahve to a bit of research into what a Fairhcild c119 centre section look like.