Korean ships to Kazakhstan?

Dear Fedaykin,

American interest in Central Asia is not a secret. The latest “new cold war” talks we had seen on the news last weeks is a reflection of this interest which is the main tool of USA to block the monopoly Russia has in natural gas market. Turkey is once again the most favorable ally of US in this scenario, having ethnical & cultural ties with these Central Asian Turkic States. According to the recent developments, both Khazak and Turkmen gas/oil will flow thru BTC pipeline into Israel and Europe. So it is not surprising to see increased US presence in Caspian region which will seriously bother Russia and Iran.

As for your Turkish ship building question, i am definetly not the most knowledgable person here about this matters. I personally know some Turkish members of this forum with much greater knowledge in the matters, however i am not sure if the forum allows pure navy topics anymore.

The corvert you mention is MILGEM Patrol and Anti Submarine Warfare Ship. Besides Pakistan , Ukraine is also said to have interest in the project.

Looking at the pictures the Turks have done a fine job refitting them for Kazakh service. (Maybe a subject for another thread but I am interested in the state of Turkish shipbuilding, I believe Pakistan is looking into buying a Corvette type off them).

The armament looks well matched to Kazakh needs, more then enough fire power to overmatch smuggler and criminal types and no complicated fire control systems to look after.

The vessel itself looks perfect for the task of waving the Kazakh flag and give them the experiance required if they do look into buying something larger and more powerful in the future. I find it particularly interesting that the Americans are interested in providing training and support.

On a side note, Turkey had earlier supplied Azerbaijan with 2 Turk class patrol boats with similar operational capabilities.

Click for larger version

Well in a countries territorial waters even warships must fly that countries flag. I think this is an international rule. Another thing is i think the ships were delivered to Khazak navy by Turkish Navy not Korean Navy, hence the ships carry the Turkish flag.

For your second question, I the weapons of choice are Western ones and the boats were fitted with those here.

Infact in SSF user Modus said;

Kıçta Bofors veya Breda 40/L60 veya 70 (muhtemelen 60) top, köprünün arkasında muhtemelen Rheinmetall 20 mm toplar var.

Tranlation:
In stern Bofors or Breda 40mm/L60-L70(probablyL60) & behind the bridge probably Rheinmetall 20mms.

This might be for maintenance issues since i believe the spare parts / ammo of the weapons might be supplied by Turkey.

Interesting pics mate, thanks.

Just a couple of questions:
1. Why are they flying the Turkish flag?
2. Why is the weapoins fit on these three tubs different to those above?

The ships are of Korean design and were readied at Istanbul Shipyard Command and delivered to Khazak Navy. The ships will be taken to Azov Sea by ships and then from there they will get into Caspian sea via various canals on rivers.
Information and pictures below are taken from posts of valuable members of Savunma Strateji Forum.

30.03 / 11:29 3 more Korean patrol boats for Kazakh Naval Forces
AKTAU. March 30, 2006. KAZINFORM /Nadezhda Ivanova/ – Yesterday Kazakh Defence Minister Mukhtar Altynbayev met the crews that before long will depart to Turkey for the Korean ships for the Caspian Naval Forces of Kazakhstan.
According to the administration of marine forces of the “West” area command, three patrol boats from Korea will be delivered by the bulk-carrier as far as Istanbul, Turkey and then through the Sea of Marmara, the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov will arrive in the Caspian port under their own power.

The crews that navigate the boats have got special training and currently practice in the Institute of Naval Studies of Aktau city. They will depart in the beginning of April.

Mr. Altynbayev noted that it was planned to purchase and order ships for the Naval Forces in the future. In particular he stressed that Kazakhstan had agreements with Russia, Turkey and Korea.
http://www.inform.kz/newsite/showarticle.php?lang=eng&id=140868

Interesting news, any pictures?

trying to find some 😮

seems like most of their navy is using stuff of western origin rather than Russian, which is pretty much the only type they use in their army and air force

Interesting news, any pictures?

Central Asia

Caspian deal a step closer
By Sergei Blagov

MOSCOW – The decade-long dispute over how to divide the oil-rich Caspian Sea may be settled soon, claims Russia, although statements by some Russian officials indicate that Moscow still views itself a bit more equal than the other four littoral nations.

The legal status of the inland sea could be agreed “within a year”, Russia’s deputy foreign minister and Caspian envoy Viktor Kalyuzhny announced on Thursday, speaking on the sidelines of a meeting of the special Caspian envoys of the five littoral states in Baku, Azerbaijan.

The meeting between the representatives of Azerbaijan, Russia, Iran, Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan “opened the way towards solving the Caspian problem”, Kalyuzhny was quoted as saying by the news agency RIA.

The other littoral states appeared to echo Russia’’s optimism. A draft convention on the legal status of the Caspian is now being viewed positively by all littoral states, Azerbaijani deputy Foreign Minister Khalaf Khalafov said. The issue has been contentious since the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991.

Until then, the sea’s status was regulated by treaties between the Soviet Union and Iran. But the break-up of the Soviet Union led to the creation of three new independent states bordering the Caspian Sea: Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan. All of those countries now seek a share of its wealth.

Naval forces
Meanwhile, Moscow has raised fresh objections against new borders, naval forces and underwater pipelines in the Caspian. Russia is against setting up maritime borders in the Caspian as it would contradict the Kremlin’s idea “to share the seabed but not the water itself”, Kalyuzhny said.

Kalyuzhny also stated that Moscow no longer supported Kazakhstan’s plans to create national naval forces, Kalyuzhny announced. No new military forces are needed in the Caspian, he was quoted as saying by RIA. The Russian-backed draft of the convention implies that the Caspian Sea should become demilitarized.

However, Kazakhstan declined to accept Moscow’s rebuttal. Kazakh deputy foreign minister Kairat Abuseidov stated that his country needed a naval unit to combat terrorism, the drug trade and illegal migration.

Russian objections to the Kazakh naval plans came as a departure from Moscow’s previous supportive position. Last year, Russian officials suggested that a joint military force, including Russia and Kazakhstan, be created to safeguard Caspian security. Moscow also pledged to supply Russian military hardware, including one naval vessel, to Kazakhstan at Russia’s domestic prices.

In August 2002, Russia held unprecedented naval exercises in the Caspian Sea, with the Russian Caspian flotilla’s 60 vessels, some 10,000 servicemen and 30 aircraft taking part. About 3,000 Kazakh servicemen or roughly all country’s naval personnel took part in the exercises, which involved joint action with Russia’s Caspian Flotilla.
Russia’s Caspian flotilla has been a force for coastal defense and waterways patrol. Following the division of the Soviet Caspian flotilla in 1992 between Moscow and Baku, Russia kept three quarters of the naval vessels and personnel based in Astrakhan.

The Kazakh navy is based in Aktau and Atyrtau ports in the eastern and northern parts of the Caspian. Kazakh naval forces include some 3,000 personnel, armed with 10 imported coast guard boats and five smaller vessels.

Tehran was prohibited from having a naval force in the Caspian Sea, according to treaties between the USSR and Iran. However, in the wake of the Soviet collapse, Iran has been reported to want to turn its Caspian ports into naval bases.

Officially, Turkmenistan has no naval forces at all. However, Turkmenistan reportedly procured 20 patrol boats from Ukraine. Turkmenistan has 20 Ukraine-built patrol boats, as well as one US-built vessel. Unlike Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan owns naval facilities in Baku as well as a quarter of the former Soviet Caspian flotilla. However, Russia reportedly acquired the best vessels.

No to pipelines
Apart from insisting on its dominant military role in the Caspian, Russia also suggests that any Caspian deal should protect Moscow’s oil transit interests. “We view the construction of pipelines through the Caspian negatively,” Kalyuzhny told the meeting in Baku, adding that Russia would seek a pipeline ban as part of a future convention on the Caspian Sea’s status.

Kalyuzhny said that Moscow would seek to ban pipelines along the bottom of the sea, an idea detrimental to a US-backed project to send Caspian oil to the Turkish port of Ceyhan. Kalyuzhny cited environmental reasons as the main argument for banning pipelines.

Construction on a pipeline between Baku and Ceyhan began last year, and the first oil is scheduled to flow through it in 2005. The Kazakh port of Aktau, across the sea from Baku, is to be linked to the pipeline by an underwater line. The pipeline, which would circumvent Russia, is backed by the US as a way to improve access to Central Asian oil.

Caspian dispute
According to treaties in 1921, 1940 and 1970, Iran controls just 13 percent of the Caspian sea and is poised to benefit greatly from equal division. After 1991, Iran suggested that the Caspian should be divided equally, with the five littoral states each receiving 20 percent of the sea. Russia, Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan support the so-called middle lines division principle, which would leave Iran with the smallest part of the Caspian.

Turkmen President Saparmurad Niyazov is yet to change his opposition towards bilateral Caspian deals. Moreover, Niyazov is reportedly due to travel to Tehran on March 10, presumably to discuss a joint position on the Caspian.

In the wake of a series of bilateral Caspian deals between Russia, Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan, widely seen as an alternative to an overall agreement of all five Caspian littoral states, last October Kazakhstan floated an idea of a trilateral agreement in the oil-rich region, backing the Russian plan of “median line” division plan as a “just solution”.

Kazakhstan is set to become a major beneficiary of the so-called median lines division principle, which would leave it with the largest part of the Caspian. Iran and Turkmenistan would be the losers of the median lines division principle.

In recent years, there have been repeated moves to resolve disputes over the Caspian Sea. In May 2002, Russian President Vladimir Putin and his Kazakh counterpart Nursultan Nazarbayev signed a bilateral agreement on how to divide the northern Caspian. The deal implies that three hydrocarbon fields divided by the median line, Kurmangazy, Central and Khvalynskoye, would be exploited on parity basis. Last October, Putin and Azerbaijani President Geidar Aliyev signed a border agreement on defining the sea border between their respective Caspian sections.

Defense deals
Russian Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov traveled to Baku earlier in the week to clinch a bilateral arms trade deal with his Azeri counterpart Safar Abiyev. However, Ivanov pledged “not to sell destabilizing weapons” to Azerbaijan.

Ivanov dismissed talk of Russia’s long-standing bias in favor of Azerbaijan’s foe, Armenia. No evidence has been found so far relative to allegations that in 1993-1996 Russia supplied Armenia with arms worth of US$1 billion, Ivanov was quoted by RIA as saying.

Ivanov also met Azeri Prime Minister Artur Rasi-Zadeh to discuss Russia’s Gabala radar station, which is located in Azerbaijan. Russian media outlets have speculated that Moscow might want to use Gabala to monitor the US war on Iraq.

However, despite improving bilateral ties, Azerbaijan is yet to side with Russia completely. The littoral states “are independent in issues relative to safeguarding their security”, Khalafov told journalists in Baku.

Presumably to illustrate the country’s independence from Russia, on February 26 an Azeri court convicted three Azeri citizens of spying for Russia and sentenced them to 10-11 years in prison. The men were found guilty of providing the Russian military intelligence with information on the deployment of troops and military equipment in Azerbaijan. Prosecutors also accused them of providing information on Azerbaijan’s oil pipeline routes and situation around the Gabala radar station.
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KAZAKH NAVY GETS CUTTERS FROM GERMANY.

The fledgling Kazakh Navy received 4 coastal defense cutters from Germany on Monday. Officially established in mid-August, the Navy had consisted of 7 small craft from the U.S. and two made in Kazakhstan. Its main base is at Aktua (formerly Fort Shevchenko) on the Caspian Sea. (Kazakh TV, October 14 1996)

more news on the Kazakh Navy

50215-N-2805L-019 Persian Gulf (Feb. 15, 2005) – Commander, Naval Forces Kazakhstan, Rear Adm. Komratov Ratmir Alimkhanovitch, speaks with Commander, Carrier Strike Group Ten (CSG-10), Rear Adm. Mike Tracy during a visit to the Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS Harry S. Truman (CVN 75). Carrier Air Wing Three (CVW-3) is embarked aboard Truman and is providing close air support and conducting intelligence surveillance and reconnaissance over Iraq. The Truman Carrier Strike Group is on a regularly scheduled deployment in support of the Global War on Terrorism. U.S. Navy photo by Photographer’s Mate 3rd Class Lilliana LaVende (RELEASED)
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Senior Kazakhstani Military Official Visits U.S. 5th Fleet
Story Number: NNS050218-07
Release Date: 2/18/2005 12:04:00 PM
Top News Story – Editors should consider using these stories first in local publications.

From Combined Forces Maritime Component Commander/Commander, U.S. Naval Forces Central Command/Commander, U.S. 5th Fleet Public Affairs

MANAMA, Bahrain (NNS) — Kazakhstan Rear Adm. Ratmir Alimkhanovitch Komratov, commander, Regional Command West completed a visit to 5th Fleet Feb. 18 in Manama, Bahrain.

Arriving Feb. 13, the admiral met with Commander, U.S. Naval Forces Central Command/Commander, U.S. 5th Fleet Vice Adm. David Nichols and members of the 5th Fleet staff, toured 5th Fleet and Naval Support Activity, Bahrain spaces, was introduced to the MK-6 Marine Mammal System, and visited USS Harry S. Truman (CVN 75) on station in the Persian Gulf.

The Central Asian nation has been working to strengthen ties with its neighbors and contribute to the international community. The purpose of Komratov’s visit was to discuss four programs: training, information exchange, finance, and military equipment, said Komratov.

“We have a long tradition of military cooperation with the republic of Kazakhstan almost dating back to its independence,” said U.S. Army Maj. Ted Donnelly, chief of the Office of Military Cooperation in the Republic of Kazakhstan, who was escorting the Kazakhstan delegation. “Most of our cooperation to date has been between the Army and the Air Force, and Kazakhstan’s equivalent forces. Military cooperation with the Kazakhstan Navy is relatively new, so we’re discussing areas where we can expand our cooperation in the future.”

More than 200 Kazakhstan naval officers have now received some form of training in the United States. U.S. 5th Fleet is exploring a variety of additional training opportunities.

“We discussed different types of maritime assessments,” said Donnelly. “Kazakhstan, as a new country and with an even newer navy, is looking for different ways that 5th Fleet can assist with determining the needs of their navy, and with possibly assisting with some of those needs in areas of education, exercises and different types of training.”

Komratov showed particular interest in aircraft carrier operations.

“I was very impressed by the skillfulness of the pilots taking off and landing on Truman aircraft carrier,” he said. “I was also surprised by the calm and peaceful atmosphere on the carrier. I saw friendly faces everywhere.”

Komratov said he was also very impressed with the good intentions and wishes the Sailors showed toward Kazakhstan, and added, “I would like them [5th Fleet Sailors] to come back home in very good health conditions, safe and sound. I would like to wish peace to their homes and their state.”

Kazakhstan is nearly four times the size of Texas and borders Russia, China, the Kyrgyz Republic, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan and the Caspian Sea. Its navy conducts the same missions as navies all over the world.

“Today, Kazakhstan’s navy is engaged in protecting the maritime economic zone and the territorial waters from acts of terrorism and sabotage,” said Kazakhstan President Nursultan Nazarbayev in a January 2004 interview with French weekly Le Nouvel Economist. “Moreover, the navy provides assistance to law enforcement bodies and others protecting the environment, as well as the people, natural riches and resources, and participating actively in rescue missions at sea.”

During his visit, Komratov was exposed to the coalition’s Maritime Security Operations (MSO). MSO is the most significant component to maritime counter-terrorism operations. Designed to detect, deter and disrupt international terrorist organizations use of the maritime environment, MSO also helps to set the conditions for security and stability. MSO includes maritime interception operations, engagement with regional militaries, protection of key infrastructure nodes, detecting and deterring piracy, and assisting mariners in distress.

If my memory serves me correctly, the 20mm Vulcans are copies of 20mm guns mounted on fighters. Korean engineers retrieved and copied one after loss of on of their F-4 or F-5 aircraft. Why they did it? It’s cheap and gets lot of lead in the air fast. Arms in the South Korean FACs vary between Jae Bi and Chamsuri class, and even within class there are differences. 20mm Vulcans proved quite effective in suppressing North Korean fire, but they could not sink the boats as well. PKX, a new design being built at the moment, will mount 76mm and a 40mm.

Can’t believe there’s such a thing as “Kazakh Navy”.

you better believe it, almost all the countries bordering the Caspian Sea have some kind of Naval flotilla. Couple years ago, Iranian ships were intruding into Azerbaijan’s claim in the Caspian sea, which led towards Turkey sending some F-16s in response.

There’s alot of oil there, alot of disagreements over maritime borders, a new pipeline in Baku to which Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan will ship their oil to, and alot of illegal caviar trade that requires some security!

Can’t believe there’s such a thing as “Kazakh Navy”.

Wasn’t a SK Sea Dolphin sunk by a 85mm shell from a NK gun boat not that long ago. I thought I remember reading that in the news.

IMO the vulcan is a silly weapon to place on a gun boat. I would place an Israeli 30mm Typhoon mount up front, the Swedish / Fin AMOS twin mortar system aft, and two 40mm automatic grenade launchers.

Ah wells, not like they have too many threats on the Caspian other than Caviar smugglers. Nation wise, Kazakhstan doesn’t have very many issues with any of the other Caspian states except minor border ones with Turkmenistan. The only real issue is between Azerbaijan and Iran, but that’s them and they border each other.

Good guess Ja – they’re Sea Vulcan’s. Think Phalanx but with a more, erm, organic fire control!.

Beats the life out of me why you’d want a manually trained 20mm gatling on a boat (instead of a decent 25 or 30mm single mount) but, hey, there they are and, from memory, a few of the Asian navies bought them!. Irrespective must be some kind of fun to sit in that cab and blast away at drones with one of those things!!!

The SK vessels didnt mount the Sea Vulcan, if my sources are right. They went with the Emerlec 30 up front and a 40mm aft (looking for confirmation of this btw!) with a couple of single 20’s one per beam. The vessels passed to the Phillipine Navy were meant to be fitted with a couple of Harpoons even though lord knows how they’d target them!.

Interesting little tubs definitely! Believe they’ve even seen action is SK service as well – remember reading about skirmishes with NK patrol boats that have involved Sea Dolphins!.

interesting little tubs, Emerlec 30’s up front, and what are those things atop and aft? They look like something out of Star Wars, like little pods, what sort of gun do they have? 7.62mm mini guns?

Looking at the evidence – South Korean, circa 150 tons displacement, patrol gunboat.

Sounds very much like the Sea Dolphin design. They’ve also got a decent track record of passing these boats on to other services as well if memory serves!.

Interesting story mate, any pics of the type involved?

Will there be other offers of military assistance for this country either by S/Korea or any other country?