Kuwait AF Lightnings

Several survive in various states in Kuwait. Three are mounted on poles at the military entrance to Kuwait International Airport and others are ‘parked’ at various military locations. One is ‘preserved’ and kept in a hangar at Kuwait Airport for a Future KAF Museum, along with several other retired types.

Back in 1998, I crawled over a T55 that was dumped at Ali Al Salem. It was in a bad way, lying on it’s side. I do remember being amazed at just how small the cockpit was for a t-bird – a bit like sitting in a Caterham 7!!!

There was at least one other other F53 displayed on base, but looked very dusty and dull and as a result, very dead looking – quite sad for such a thoroughbred of an aircraft. 🙁

As a final postscript to the Saudi side of it. Airwork were off the Saudi contract from April 1973. The British Ambassador at the time said to a senior AW rep that he hoped Airwork would complete the contract in a spirit of goodwill on the basis that there might be other work there for them in the future.
The Magic Carpet part of the contract referred to the first part of the Air Defence Scheme for the urgent requirement to have 6 Lightnings and 6 Hunters up to operational status as fast as possible. All this is in files at the National Archive at Kew

Fair enough, just quoting what is written in Kev Darlings, operational history book. Perhaps Kuwait still operated a few of them, using pilots from the Saudi pool, who knows? several sources do stipulate though that the magic carpet contract ended in 1971, with no further renewal for Kuwait, only Saudi, so who operated the maintenance for KAF?

Kev’s book also states that KAF lost 3 of their 12 a/c in crashes. Two of them went down in late 1971, and the last loss was 53-420 which crashed in 1975, the same year that another a/c 53-413 was grounded after damaged sustained by ground handling operations.
So, certainley confirms spoaradic flying ops still taking place in 1975, which fits with their final grounding in 1977.

Fair enough, just quoting what is written in Kev Darlings, operational history book. Perhaps Kuwait still operated a few of them, using pilots from the Saudi pool, who knows? several sources do stipulate though that the magic carpet contract ended in 1971, with no further renewal for Kuwait, only Saudi, so who operated the maintenance for KAF?

mjr

I cannot agree with all that as I was in Kuwait in 1976 and saw the Lightning flying as I met one of the pilots giving a little show over the airport by the name of Mervyn/Mervin a Brit. Sometime during my 4 years there they clearly ceased using them as all the Lightnings were parked in the open at the side of the taxyway.

fb#5: the industrial biography by C.Gardner,BAC,Batsford,1981, pp.248-251:5/66: Saudi Main contract: “Airwork were contracted to service BAC/AEI equipment and to train RSaAF personnel…to…service all the installations”;
(18/12/66: Kuwait contract, 14 Lightnings/12 Strikemasters);
“In 1972 the Saudi Govt. expressed a wish to deal with just one firm…5/73 Inter-Governmental MoU, 5 years (extended 9/77), BAC contracted (by HMG: 10 tasks supporting a defined level of readiness for Lightning, Strikemaster and Cessna T-41A)”;
1977 BAC formed “Defence Support Services…inc. civil engineering…Kuwait also continued to need support services for the Lightnings…and 12 Strikemasters”.
B.Philpott, Lightning,PSL,1984,P.151: KAF Lightnings (F.53K/T.55K) “are now being phased out of operational service”.

My understanding: 1, not 2 Projects. Kuwait airspace was embraced within the Saudi (Arabian Peninsula) Air Defence Ground Environment. The oil barter deal embraced all kit, RSaAF+KAF. BAC/AEI/Airwork supported the lot. So, wherever the word “Saudi” appears, read as “Saudi+Kuwaiti”. Dhahran support to all aircraft. Airwork+BAC ground personnel working on all aircraft. I believe the contractual centralisation on BAC (becoming BAe. 29/4/77) caused subordination, not ejection of Airwork Services Ltd. I believe KAF displacement of Lightning by Mirage F.1 was less to do with techno-matters, but with, ah, politics.

correct. mostly. Airworks bit off more than they could chew. O/R rates were not up to scratch throughout the 2 years up to 1970/71. The carpet contract ended in 70, and Pakistani contracetd maintenance crews couldn’t handle the Lightning and Hunter at all. The Sauds approached directly BAC to extent the carpet contract, only this time they wanted better O/R as they had not been happy with Airwork’s overall performance. BAC responded by sending civi BAC contingent out to work along side Airwork RAF contractors for RSAF, (this didnt happen for KAF, since the contract finished, and that was that) this worked very well, and remained the case until Jan 86. Kuwait operations never really took off, flying was sporadic, no fault of Airworks or BAC, but because Kuwait INT airport was unsuited to operating something like the Lightning. Kuwait responded by building 2 new airfields for the purpose in 69, unfortunately neither of them were ever finished properly, and lack of facilities/infrastructure kept the Lightnings only stuttering along. After contract ended in 70, Kuwait had given up on the Lightning soon after in early 71, and moved to the simpler Mirage. The entire Kuwaiti Lightning fleet (by now moth balled some 18 months) was put up for sale in 73, inital interest from egypt amounted to nothing. There was no BAC buy back scheme since Kuwait already had the Mirage.

All documented in Kev Darlings excellent operational history..(apart from Airworks shortcomings, that info came directly from several BAC guys working on Dharan line)

fb#5: the industrial biography by C.Gardner,BAC,Batsford,1981, pp.248-251:5/66: Saudi Main contract: “Airwork were contracted to service BAC/AEI equipment and to train RSaAF personnel…to…service all the installations”;
(18/12/66: Kuwait contract, 14 Lightnings/12 Strikemasters);
“In 1972 the Saudi Govt. expressed a wish to deal with just one firm…5/73 Inter-Governmental MoU, 5 years (extended 9/77), BAC contracted (by HMG: 10 tasks supporting a defined level of readiness for Lightning, Strikemaster and Cessna T-41A)”;
1977 BAC formed “Defence Support Services…inc. civil engineering…Kuwait also continued to need support services for the Lightnings…and 12 Strikemasters”.
B.Philpott, Lightning,PSL,1984,P.151: KAF Lightnings (F.53K/T.55K) “are now being phased out of operational service”.

My understanding: 1, not 2 Projects. Kuwait airspace was embraced within the Saudi (Arabian Peninsula) Air Defence Ground Environment. The oil barter deal embraced all kit, RSaAF+KAF. BAC/AEI/Airwork supported the lot. So, wherever the word “Saudi” appears, read as “Saudi+Kuwaiti”. Dhahran support to all aircraft. Airwork+BAC ground personnel working on all aircraft. I believe the contractual centralisation on BAC (becoming BAe. 29/4/77) caused subordination, not ejection of Airwork Services Ltd. I believe KAF displacement of Lightning by Mirage F.1 was less to do with techno-matters, but with, ah, politics.

Never mind who flew or serviced them, what happened to the planes? Any surviving?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/forzaq8/4675780851/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/macbrun/2627869279/

Sorry to draw a blank- despite asking no one present flew the KAF Ltgs- there were two ex RSAF exchange pilots so sorry i can’t be more help but il keep asking!

Never mind who flew or serviced them, what happened to the planes? Any surviving?

Several survive in various states in Kuwait. Three are mounted on poles at the military entrance to Kuwait International Airport and others are ‘parked’ at various military locations. One is ‘preserved’ and kept in a hangar at Kuwait Airport for a Future KAF Museum, along with several other retired types.

salad fingers

We are waiting for an update after your Thursday meeting with ex Kuwait Lightning Pilots!;)

Eagerly awaiting!!

salad fingers

We are waiting for an update after your Thursday meeting with ex Kuwait Lightning Pilots!;)

I will be meeting a few pilots who flew KAF Lightnings on Thursday if anyone has any specific questions they’d like asking – let me know

Yes, can you politely ask if any of them can post something here, or maybe pass forward some of their experiences for someone else to post up?
Would be fascinating to hear from pilots involved.

If that fails, serviceability of aircraft and how long they were actually used for would be interesting to know?

Yours hopefully:cool:

Never mind who flew or serviced them, what happened to the planes? Any surviving?

I will be meeting a few pilots who flew KAF Lightnings on Thursday if anyone has any specific questions they’d like asking – let me know
Kind Rgds SF

Aah yes, the WIWOL pis**p…. I mean ‘social’ gathering. I’m sure a good time will be had by all 😀

You could ask then, why any of them don’t list a KAF tour on their Sqns served listing on the LP website, whereas those that did a RSAF tour do…..?

Sorry Firebird, you are absolutely correct. Secondment is not the right word. I don’t know anything about the KAF operation hence my first question, but the Saudi Lightnings had pilots who were on contract to Airwork and when various problems arose, the pilots were then employed by the Saudi Government through another third party whilst the RAF offered the facility to train up Saudi pilots as quickly as possible.

RAF pilots certainley flew exchange tours with the RSAF though. Two well known pilots (Andy Williams and Ces Ilsley) that were flying the Lightning during the last few years of RAF ops in the mid/late eighties had previously flown tours on RSAF Lightnings.

Badger1968

I think Jon Petersen thinks Kuwait is like the Mojave desert which of course anybody who has lived there all year round would know otherwise.

I like living in the Mojave, while we do have dust storms, & dust devils (looks like a small tornado of sand), rain is somewhat absent, 10in a year where I am & that usually falls in 3 or 4 days spread over Winter. 15 miles away closer to the mountains they have flash floods when it rains.
The phrase “drier than a popcorn fart” describes this area quite well. I have some old Kawasaki (bike, not aircraft) steel engine mount plates sat on a shelf in my garage that I beadblasted at least 14 years ago, they look like I did them yesterday.

Badger1968

I think Jon Petersen thinks Kuwait is like the Mojave desert which of course anybody who has lived there all year round would know otherwise.

I will be meeting a few pilots who flew KAF Lightnings on Thursday if anyone has any specific questions they’d like asking – let me know
Kind Rgds SF

SF I would like to know who carried out their maintenance/ground crew back up and also whether Airwork were in any way involved. Firebird has given what looks like a conclusive answer but it would be nice to hear it from one of the horses mouths so to speak.
I think Airwork were probably too stretched in Saudi at the time to get involved but it would be interesting to find out for sure.

Many Thanks
OG

Rot?

From what?

I´d imagine rubber articles would have at hard time in the desert, but the airframe?

Jon

2 points.

1. Sand can be worse than rain… scores of sandstorms over the years (and general wind-driven sand at lesser levels) can abrade holes in aircraft skin, not to mention the damage it can do once inside via panel joins, vents, etc.

2. As our soldiers found, there are a couple of months where there are actually pretty substantial rains, which can really cause issues once the sand has made entry points to where water should never be.