Lanc Cockpit In The News…

Bruce said “He could elect to pass the cockpit (s) down to the children now, if they wanted to keep them, so as long as he lives another seven years, there would be nothing to pay. The same applies to any gift. This is completely legal tax planning. Of course, the children might not want the Lancaster; in which case the estate sells it before it comes to the accounting stage.”

Exactly. In my reply to Cees I alluded to my collecting interests. I also know full well from the actions of other families that few children share their parents’ hobby passions. The problem here is simply do the kids want to keep the cockpit reproduction or not. My experience tells me that the moment dear old dad drops of the perch, their carefully and lovingly developed hobby interest will be disposed of very quickly. If the kids are interested then this chap should give the cockpit to them now while he is still compos or give way to the inevitable and arrange for its donation to a suitable museum when he does what is inevitable for all of us.

This is all complete nonsense.

Death duty is payable on the whole estate before the remainder is split between the beneficiaries, so no, the children wouldn’t pay anything; the estate would.

If he lasts another couple of years, the threshold at which the state begins to pay IT raises to £1 million, I think I read – so there will be plenty in the pot to pay the tax bill.

He could elect to pass the cockpit (s) down to the children now, if they wanted to keep them, so as long as he lives another seven years, there would be nothing to pay. The same applies to any gift. This is completely legal tax planning. Of course, the children might not want the Lancaster; in which case the estate sells it before it comes to the accounting stage.

£150,000 for a replica forward fuselage? Really? We built one up from a real fuselage section for considerably less than that – it is on display at FHC in Seattle.

Why the Telegraph printed this utter nonsense is beyond me – though nothing the press do should surprise me anymore.

Bruce

No problem Malcolm,:D
True, the problem with these projects is that an idea grows into an obsession to achieve a certain goal, in this case a cockpit. While the job is ongoing that is fantastic and you see something evolve before your very eyes. As soon as it has been completed, that’s that. You tinker a bit with small jobs still to do, but that’s it. Someone once told me after completion it will be a milestone around the neck. Well, in a way that is correct.:p
I think most people working on similar projects never think about the future implications when they are no longer around.
Everything has a value, years ago Elliott brokered the sale of Bernie Salter’s Lancaster cockpit.
Cheers
Cees

My apologies Cees I was not attacking you cockpit builders. What I was implying was that would there be a market for such a replica? I’m sure you chaps put your heart and soul into it, but from my experience as a collector of antique arms on thematic lines I know full well that the moment I fall off the perch the carefully accumulated thematic structure will vaporise as the individual pieces are sold off. One man’s meat is etc. …….. 😉

Malcolm,
With all the years of blood, sweat, tears, effort, the whine of naysayers and of course the money involved to build such a fine cockpit, then just donate it to a museum where it will be left to rot?
You think it is that easy?
I rather cut up mine for parts than doing that.
Cees

Would a replica be worth the kind of money that would incur that size of tax bill?

What would a real forward fuselage be worth in that condition.

Like others, I would ask why not just donate it to a museum? I’m no UK tax expert (thank heavens), but in America a donation to a certified museum would reduce tax liability.

Sounds like a beat up to me – death duties? Why not simply donate it to a museum as I can’t understand why anyone would pay for something that’s missing 85% of the rest of the Lancaster.

Cheap publicity

Thank you.

War and Peace show 2010

Mark

Yes

War and Peace Show 2009.

Is this the one?

Mark

I think we all know that, including Mr Hall…….

It won’t get scrapped

£60 k tax bill (40% death duties after the £325K threshold) assumes a value of £150,000.

Just a crazy idea, but what about selling it , pocketing £90,000 and then paying the dreaded tax bill.

Win win, and no distressing scrapping required. ( as if …. ) .

What moronic journalism.

Good link Consul, the pages of Mr Halls collections are well done. I doubt it was found in a field, this is second only to the buried fuselages story which emerges like a ground hog every year. Even been told that the Grace Spitfire was found in a field.

https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/using-a-trust-to-cut-your-inheritance-tax

“As part of his estate, however, it will have to be destroyed on or before his death to avoid his children paying a tax bill of around £60,000.

Mr Hall, 63, from Surrey, discovered the aircraft decaying in a Lincolnshire field in 1977, where it had finally ended up after being discarded by the RAF following the end of the war.”

“Mr Hall’s cockpit has been refitted with a forward gun turret taken from the aircraft flown by the first airman to receive a Victoria Cross for heroism in a Lancaster, Squadron Leader John Nettleton, who was decorated following the Augsburg raid of 1942.”

So who officially owns it then ,or does finders keepers come in.The gun from the VC cockpit must surely belong to someone.

There are indeed two nose sections reportedly owned by Mr Hall. The one is a reconstruction and includes the extreme forward section of 976 (previously stored in Dick Richardson’s garden) but is a long-nosed example. The other is the one (which I had thought was a replica) that seems to be the item illustrated in the press article linked by the OP. The article now claims it is ex RAF and was found discarded in a field! Is it based on a genuine aicraft and what is its provenance?

This might be of interest:
http://www.avro-lancaster.org/filmtv.html

There is a photo of the two noses together if you scroll down in the following link. (There is also a picture of the one nose at Scampton in c2014):
http://www.timefadesaway.co.uk/strathallan/kb976/kb_976_11.html

I believe Jeremy owns two. The machine pictured in the Telegraph is his first machine . The second which I believe has a link to the ‘Night Flight’ Lancaster fuselage last at Thorpe Camp. That is now at East Kirkby with the extreme nose of KB976 on it. There are no Lancaster cockpits at Scampton.

According to W&R 25th edition there exists a Lancaster cockpit section replica which, at that time, was on loan to Scampton. It was on loan from a Jeremy Hall. The reconstruction was reportedly created for the TV drama Night Flight. Is this the item being referenced?

‘Found’ in Lincolnshire. Doesn’t it still belong to the RAF then?