Lancaster Bomb Aimer's Panel Connectors

Wayne,
PM me your email address and I can send you a drawing of interest – its a .tif file which doesn’t look to be valid as an attachment on here.
Andy

The exact shape of the panel has been another of the big mysteries for me too. In fact, I had been in touch a while ago with the Canada Aviation and Space Museum in Ottawa where they have KB 944 (RAF) alias Avro 683 Lancaster X, manufactured in 1945.
One of the Curator’s assistant’s Erin has been kind enough, with the permission of the Museum Curator, to look into many detailed questions I had about the BA panel and to take some measurements. I just heard back from her today. One of the guys (I’m sorry I don’t have his name to give him credit) who crawled in and took a whack of photos and measurements for me, drew up the attached sketch. He has clearly given this some thought and he seems to think, it is actually a parallelogram. I was thinking that maybe it was only one side that was angled differently and there were two 90 degree corners. I’ll also attach a very clean pic of the panel from him, face on. The gadget layout again varies slightly from other Cdn. examples I’ve seen. I note the bomb release button appears to have two (or four?) wires but, it also has two possible outlets, the 2nd being the 5D/525. Oh, to be a fly crawling around the back wiring of that panel!
I would have never thought to ask for diagonal measurements to get the degree of corner angle but there may be other ways to estimate that. Having good diagrams of the rib set-up would be a start. Can one assume the aircraft ribs are parallel at this point? Do you think the panel sits horizontally at 90 degrees to the ribs?
Then there is the right side, towards the skin which can’t be fully seen as it’s behind the rib. Without original diagrams or having a panel outside of the aircraft and available to measure, it’s going to be very tricky to get that shape accurate. The other wrap-around sides look to be 1/4 to 3/16″ in depth but I think the Nanton Lanc is closer to 1/2″ – as measured from the front face.
I’ll have some additional information from the Nanton Lanc (Mk.X FM-159) BA panel analyzed shortly and we’ll see if that info clears things up or just adds to the confusion.
Later,
Wayne

Another interesting question, going off the topic of the connectors, is the shape of the panel. There are clearly two variants, rectangular and a parallelogram shape where the top edge has been ‘pushed to the right’ by about an inch and a quarter, so the left and right hand edges aren’t at 90 degrees to the top and bottom. This isn’t an optical illusion I hasten to add! I’m guessing this was because it fits between the aircraft frames more easily?

Andy

I’ve noticed the different options too; either five or six connectors across the top but not always in the same positions. Sometimes it’s the right side end one, facing the panel (AN3102-16-9P, 4 pins), that is missing (G for George (A07006) Australia and KB944 in Ottawa). It could depend on the combination of pre-selector, the version of the Distributor (i.e. 5D/664) and the bomb release button wiring and maybe the actual bomb sight fitted to the plane. I believe, but I’m not sure, that the far right plug might be for the inertia switch Klixon if used. Ya, I’m not sure either but I think it’s a protective safety device, maybe added latter on in the war. Initially I thought this had something to do with extraterrestrial warriors! Maybe a safety device to disarm the bombs should the plane experience rapid momentum changes? Perhaps someone will weigh in on this.
The bomb release button is another contentious item. I’ve seen them usually sold with two wires (also used in photography as triggers). Often on BA panels, they fit into a plug (5D/525), which can accept up to 5 wires via a 2, 3 (5D/517) or 5 (5D/519) pin male plug configurations, … depending. In fact, I’d hazard a guess that 99% of the “bomb release” buttons sold in the last few decades weren’t actually ever used for that purpose at least on the Lancaster but they are the best available substitute.

Maybe we’ll just have to build something that looks pretty!
Opinions and/or corrections to any of the above are more than welcome.

W.

The other interesting thing about that panel drawing is the extra connector on the top, F158, I haven’t seen that before, all other drawings or photographs I’ve seen only show five connectors along the top edge.
Andy

Hi Andy & all:

Below (or attached?) is a page, presumably from a Canadian manual. Sadly I can’t recall who sent this to me but I think it was from a British source. I too had assumed the British and Canadian connectors were identical.
I also note that I had assumed the connectors mounted on the panel were female but at least in one example I have seen, they are male. Attached is an image of the female, “Z” Amphenol connector at the end of a wiring harness, AN 3102 20 – 16P (9 pins) which plugs into the panel.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]245665[/ATTACH]

You’re right Andy, it seems detailed info is hard to find. I hope to rectify that over the next while on this form once I can confirm some numbers, photos and diagrams.

Cheers,
Wayne

[ATTACH=CONFIG]245663[/ATTACH]

I’ve had to take a step back. I’m now concluding that although the UK and Canadian panels look to be to the same design, the connector types used aren’t the same so the panels would not be interchangeable.
The UK panels used Breeze connectors, whereas the Canadian panels used AN3102 connectors. Therefore using the Canadian drawing to say connector X has seven pins can’t be carried over to the UK panel. As only six pins are wired, a 5X/35 Breeze connector with six pins is looking increasingly likely for connector X on the UK panel. Connectors Y and Z are still a mystery though!
Andy

Just had a look at the AN3102 drawing dated 14-7-41, and it shows that these connectors are box mount circular soldered connectors.

We know them as MS3102 connectors today and are readily available.

I checked the size and insert arrangements and the number of pins Zorgon advises is correct.

Wayne,
What makes you say the connectors are AN 3102 types (on the Canadian aircraft)? It’s just dawned on me that these aren’t equivalent to Breeze connectors.
Andy

Alan,
I’m assuming that connector X has seven pins and Y and Z have nine pins because Figure 34 in AP2062F for the Canadian Lancaster shows them as having six pins used plus a spare, and eight pins used plus a spare respectively. This does of course also assume that the panels on the British and Canadian aircraft were identical, which I think they are?

I’ve never come across a Junction Box A, I imagine they are as hard to find as a Bomb-aimer’s Panel!

Andy

Hi Andy, and thanks for the .tif file. It’s one of the better ones I’ve seen so far and the numbers are much easier to read than on mine.

A thought occurred to me – if you could locate a Lancaster Junction Box A, then there will be matching sockets for ‘X’ ‘Y’ and ‘Z’. The wiring diagram in AP2062A Vol. I suggests ‘X’ has six pins, ‘Y’ and ‘Z’ have eight. Whether this means a socket with eight terminals or nine with one unused, I don’t know?

Alan, that’s a comprehensive list of drawings!!!

Your picture is a variant of the one I have as a .TIF file, which doesn’t seem to be valid attachment here (I’ll email it to you). Whereas mine is pixelated, yours is blurred! We can’t win. I agree that 5X/22 fits the bill for the bottom connector F3, shell size B, two pins. Connector X, the top one on the RH side, looks like 5X/35 on my diagram, you suggest 5X/55, but I don’t think either fit the bill. It has to be at least 7 pins, /35 only has 6, whereas /55 has 9 size 7 and 16 size 19, far too big.

The three small ones on the top I think will be 5X/1, the next will be 5X/7 , and the RH on the top 5X/34.
Y and Z look like 5X/109 on my diagram which is clearly wrong, 5X/109 is a 5-pin free connector! They must have at least 9 pins.

It would be very useful if any of your other drawings can help, please!

Many thanks,
Andy

In the longer term, one or more of these may hold the answers!

1374 2/S1056 Bomb Aimers Panel-Starb’d 00001UUC
1554 S1164 Sht 1 Bomb Aimers Panel – starb’d 00001UZC
1555 S1164 Sht 1 Bomb Aimers Panel – starb’d 00001UZD
1556 S1164 Sht 1 Bomb Aimers Panel – starb’d 00001UZE
1557 S1164 Sht 1 Bomb Aimers Panel – starb’d 00001UZF
1558 S1164 Sht 2 Wiring diagram for starb’d Bomb Aimers Panel 00001UZG
1559 S1164 Sht 2 Wiring diagram for starb’d Bomb Aimers Panel 00001UZH
1560 S1164 Sht 2 Wiring diagram for starb’d Bomb Aimers Panel 00001UZI
1561 S1164 Sht 2 Wiring diagram for starb’d Bomb Aimers Panel 00001UZJ
1562 S1164 Sht 3 Bomb Aimers Panel – starb’d 00001UZK
1563 1164 Sht 3 Bomb Aimers Panel – starb’d 00001UZL
1564 S1164 Sht 3 Bomb Aimers Panel – starb’d 00001UZM
1565 S1164 Sht 3 Bomb Aimers Panel – starb’d 00001UZN
1566 2/S1164 Bomb Aimers Panel – starb’d 00001UZO
1567 2/S1164 Bomb Aimers Panel – starb’d 00001UZP
1582 S1154 Sht 1 Bomb Aimers Panel – starb’d 00001V04
1583 S1154 Sht 2 Wiring diagram for starb’d Bomb Aimers Panel 00001V05
1584 S1154 Sht 3 Bomb Aimers Panel – starb’d 00001V06
1585 S1155 Arrgt of Bomb Aimers Panel 00001V07
1586 2/S1155 Detail of Bomb Aimers Panel 00001V08
1604 2/S1164 Bomb Aimers Panel – starb’d 00001V0Q
1663 85&86/S1164 Angle Brackets for Bomb Aimer’s Panel 00001V2D
1664 86/S1164 Angle Brackets for Bomb Aimer’s Panel 00001V2E
1665 87/S1164 Angle Brackets for Bomb Aimer’s Panel 00001V2F
1666 88/S1164 Angle Brackets for Bomb Aimer’s Panel 00001V2G
1667 100/S1164 Angle Brackets for Bomb Aimer’s Panel 00001V2H
1701 S1154/Sht 1 Bomb Aimers Panel 00001V3F
1702 S1154/Sht 2 Wiring Diagram for Starboard Bomb Aimers Panel 00001V3G
1703 S1154/Sht 3 Bomb Aimers Panel 00001V3H
1704 S1155 Arrgt Bomb Aimers Panel 00001V3I
1705 2/S1155 Detail – Bomb Aimers Panel 00001V3J
1723 S1164/Sht 1 Bomb Aimers Panel 00001V41
1724 S1164/Sht 1 Bomb Aimers Panel Starboard 00001V42
1725 S1164/Sht 1 Bomb Aimers Panel Starboard 00001V43
1726 S1164/Sht 1 Bomb Aimers Panel 00001V44
1727 S1164/Sht 2 Wiring Diagram for Starboard Bomb Aimers Panel 00001V45
1728 S1164/Sht 2 Wiring Diagram for Starboard Bomb Aimers Panel Scheme 00001V46
1729 S1164/Sht 2 Wiring Diagram For Starboard Bomb Aimers Panel 00001V47
1730 S1164/Sht 2 Wiring Diagram for starb/d Bomb Aimers Panel 00001V48
1731 S1164/Sht 3 Bomb Aimers Panel – Starboard Rearside 00001V49
1732 S1164/Sht 3 Bomb Aimers Panel – Starboard Rearside 00001V4A
1733 S1164/Sht 3 Bomb Aimers Panel – Starboard Rearside 00001V4B
1734 S1164/Sht 3 Bomb Aimers Panel 00001V4C
1735 2/S1164 Bomb Aimers Panel Starboard 00001V4D
1736 2/S1164 Bomb Aimers Panel Starboard 00001V4E
1737 2/S1164 Bomb Aimers Panel 00001V4F
1811 S1253/Sht 1 Bomb Aimers Panel 00001V6H
1812 S1253/Sht 2 Wiring Diagram for starb’d Bomb Aimer’s Panel 00001V6I
1813 2/S1235 Bomb Aimers Panel 00001V6J
1814 S11254 Arrgt Bombsight Panel 00001V6K
1905 S1336/Sht 1 Wiring OF Bomb Aimers Panel – Starb’d 00001V93
1906 S1336/Sht 2 Wiring Diagram for Starb’d Bomb Aimers Panel 00001V94
1907 13/S1336 Plug “X” Ass’y 00001V95
1908 14/S1336 Wiring of Selector Switch Box 00001V96
1909 S1337 Ass’y of Bomb Aimers Panel 00001V97
1910 S1338 Mtg of Instruments on Bomb Aimers Panel 00001V98
1911 2/S1338 Detail of Bomb Aimers Panel 00001V99

As a more immediate help, here’s an early panel from the Lancaster I & II, already superseded by mid-1942. By squinting hard, I’ve been able to make out what looks to be the Breeze Ref. on just a couple.

If you have a list of numbers, do the ones I’ve indicated make any sense?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]245606[/ATTACH]

Cees,
I’ve asked Bruce in the past, but the problem is not knowing exactly which connector types are required!

Has anyone got access to a diagram of the panel with the 5X/…. ID’s for the connectors legibly marked? Or photos showing the pin layout? My diagram copy is too pixelated, and the numbers I think I can read frustratingly don’t tie in with the Breeze connector listing I have.

Andy

You can always ask Bruce if he has some.
Cees

Hi Wayne,
Many thanks for your reply! I haven’t thought about this for a while (too many projects!), so I need to go back and correlate your info with what I had deduced. I am certain that the connectors are of the ‘Plessey-Breeze’ type, based on photos, and have no reason to believe that the Canadian aircraft didn’t generally use the same panel as the UK-built aircraft, although having said that I do recall seeing a photo where the panel was different, so perhaps there were alternatives.
Your reference numbers look like Mil-Standard type format, I’d like to find the AM Stores Reference numbers in the 5X/…. series. I’m sure I’ve found the correct 2-pin connectors, but the others are more elusive, I think they may have been types which died out early on in the evolution of the Plessey-Breeze range which was certainly used in post-war aircraft.
Pictures showing the pin-layout of the connectors on an existing genuine panel would be exceedingly useful if anyone has one………………..

I’ll reply again when I’ve done some digging.

Andy

Hi Andy:
My Lanc BA panel has been on hold for a few years, pending a few components, including the connectors. I had made the list below list some time ago. I suspect my reference numbers are for the Cdn Lanc but maybe it will be of some use?
I too have yet to find even one of these exact, original connectors but maybe soon. Somewhere I have a page that references the connectors to the numbers if that will help.

AN 3102 Connectors needed for Bomb Aimers Panel
All Female
• X AN 3102 20 – 15P 7 pins
• Y AN 3102 20 – 16P 9 pins
• Z AN 3102 20 – 16P 9 pins
• F42 AN 3102 16 – 9P 4 pins
• F41 AN 3102 24 – 7P 16 pins
• F158 AN 3102 18 – 8P 8 pins
• F43 AN 3102 14S – 9P 2 pins
• F46 AN 3102 14S – 9P 2 pins
• F44 AN 3102 14S – 9P 2 pins
• F3 AN 3102 16 – 11P 2 pins

Cheers,
Wayne

Hi Smirky, thanks for your reply!
I do have that drawing (the only one I’ve found so far) as a .tiff file, but unfortunately it’s so badly pixellated that the connector part numbers are unreadable.
Yes, I do want to wire it up, with the intention of being able to demonstrate it. Real bombs might annoy the neighbours, so I’m thinking along the lines of an array of bulbs to simulate whether each bomb station is fuzed, and bomb on/off station status.
I have the various aircraft AP’s, the best wiring diagram I’ve come across for the panel itself is in the AP for the Canadian Lancaster (I think the panel was identical to the Avro-built aircraft), but again, no info on the connector part numbers. They should be 5X section reference numbers.
I’d like to use the correct ones if at all possible.
Andy

Does this help any? Obviously if this was more readable you could dig further.

I wouldn’t let this hold up your project, you are not going to wire it up (or are you?) so connectors that look about right should do the job. I think the wiring diagram for the whole aircraft is in the AP for the Mk II which is widely available and this will indicate the size of the cables.

Can I ‘bump’ this thread, please – surely we have some Lancaster experts on here!

I’m surprised at the general paucity of information on this panel, or at least that I have been able to find.

Andy