Hi All,
Near to my home is the unmarked site of a WW2 aircrash in which all eight crew were killed. I an starting a bit of a movement to have something erected to mark the crash site and perpetuate the memory of those lost.
To that end, Air Ministry on here looked up the file on the crash in the National Archives on my behalf. In a nutshell the Lancaster involved is thought to have pitched over into a steep dive. There was a partial recovery at around 2000 ft which was soon followed by the airframe breaking up, wing tips outboard of the outer engines being torn off along with the tailplane / rudders / parts of the rear fuselage. It appears the impact was vertical.
In the accident report, the person in charge of the investigation of the crash scene mentions several times that the elevators were not modified to Mod 1131 but give no clue as to what this mod was or what deficiency it was designed to overcome. Mod 1131 anyone??
It also mentions that the fuselage was telescoped from the front turret to frame 36. Can anyone say where along the fus frame 36 was?
My thanks in advance to anyone who can come up with the answers or point me to a source of information.
Stu K
By: BobKat - 11th February 2018 at 11:42
Stukno,
I’m not sure what to make of this, but attached are extracts from AP2062A&C, the Lancaster Parts List dated March 1944, which show on page 47 outline details of the elevators (pre Mod. 1101). On page 46a outline details of Mod. 1101 are shown issued with A/L No.8. This Amendment List was dated 1 May 1946 and I see from your link that the Lancaster crashed on 15 April 1945. The quote from lanc35’s post refers to Mods. 1101 and 1131 (presumably alternatives?). There is no trace of Mod. 1131 in my copy of AP2062A&C, but Mod. 1101 would seem to post-date the crash.
Good luck with your project.
Edit:
Looking at the component parts in more detail, the elevator trimmer appears unchanged: it is the elevator servo that has altered. Somebody with more expertise than me may be able to explain!
By: stukno - 11th February 2018 at 10:56
Thanks everyone, some good information there. Lanc35, that information seems most relevant to the situation under discussion.
The event under discussion is summarised here;-
http://aircrewremembered.com/speed-howard.html
Towards the bottom of the page there is a suggestion that relatives of the crew are out there and have been doing their own research. I believe that the owner of that web site has some contact details and has promised to pass info on as my own project progresses.
I also understand that some form of excavation of the site took place in the 80’s and I’m working on finding out more from that quarter.
The objective is that have something in place and a service of dedication on 15/4/2020, 75 years after the event
By: AndyY - 11th February 2018 at 10:20
BobKat, thanks!
Just to add to this, I was talking to a pal who worked at Chadderton in the 1960’s, and he recollects the frames/formers of the 748 being referred to as ‘rings’!
Andy
By: BobKat - 11th February 2018 at 10:11
Yes, ‘frame’ and ‘former’ appear to be interchangeable. The attached diagram may help.
By: Marka1967 - 11th February 2018 at 10:01
Hi Stukno I read it from Lancaster at war 2 there’s a chapter all about the early problems with the Lancaster told by their then chief engineer Sandy Jack. A Lanc was lost during a test dive the issue being the fuel jettison doors being ripped off in the dive and damaging the elevators which then ballooned and lost their covering. They fitted Anson wooden ribs to strengthen the elevators until a more robust elevator was produced.
By: lanc35 - 11th February 2018 at 00:48
Hi,
From an earlier thread on here…
From an internet search…
“37. Diving
(i) On aircraft in which Mod. 1101 or 1131 is incorporated it is possible to recover from dives to the limiting speed without the assistance of the elevator trimming tab, even if the aircraft has been trimmed into the dive. If the elevator trimming tab is used, it should be applied with care, since it is powerful and sensitive.
(ii) On unmodified aircraft there is a strong nose-down change of trim ai speed is famed in the dive. On these aircraft the elevator trimming tab should never be used to assistentry, but should be used to reduce the very heavy pull force otherwise necessary for recovery.
The flight engineer should be prepared to assist the pilot if required.”
Just out of interest, can you post more details on the crash?
It might also help the relatives of the crew find this thread and contact you.
cheers,
Greg
By: stukno - 10th February 2018 at 20:15
My thanks to those who have responded.
The actual phrase used in the report is ‘ to No 36 frame ‘ -Frame or former I think that we are talking about the same thing.
Marka 1967, any idea where you read that?
By: richw_82 - 10th February 2018 at 19:50
I think the terms are interchangeable, though on most Lancaster drawings it refers to formers not frames. As BobKat says though, former 36 is just behind the front spar of the tailplane so it must have been quite an impact.
By: AndyY - 10th February 2018 at 13:25
BobKat, are you saying that ‘frame’ isn’t the right word? It’s what I’ve always understood to be the one to use for the circular/egg-shaped structures which are joined together with horizontal stringers, I haven’t come across ‘former’ in this context?
By: Marka1967 - 10th February 2018 at 13:17
I think I read somewhere that there was a mod to Lanc elevators which involved adding more ribs to the internal structure to stop them ballooning under certain conditions.
By: BobKat - 9th February 2018 at 23:11
Stu,
On the assumption that frame 36 should mean former 36, then this was back to the tail-plane.
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February 9, 2018 at 9:23 pm