Lancaster history wanted, crash info.

John – do we know for certain the serial of this crashed Lanc. as being ‘SW336’ ?
On the link http://www.aviationinmalta.com/Default.aspx?tabid=495 there is a list of crashes on Malta during the period 1950 -1959 and there is a mention of an incident on 28-9-1953 when Lancaster GR3 ‘RF308’ of 37 Sqn. “SWUNG ON TAKE-OFF, UNDERCARRIAGE COLLAPSED”.

Viewing the crash photo you’ve posted this could fit the bill – the undercarriage has definitely collapsed in the shot. Any thoughts ?

Richard

RF308 was on strength with 37 Sqdn, but was also shared with 38 Sqdn.

Hi everyone! Sorry for the late reply (forgot my p/w) I’m the Grandson of the person who took the photos in this thread. Lanc SW336 V “Victor” was one he crewed the most (I have the log book evidence to prove it). And 38 Sqdn did indeed just use the single individual aircraft letter. And they used the second half of the alphabet, while 37 Sqdn used the first half. Below is his beloved SW336 over Luqa. My Grandfather I should mention was a Signaller .

12631537_1001712419900924_6473761497627301307_n by Darren Greenwood, on Flickr

And that is RF308 in the photo’s. She swung on take-off, and suffered an undercarriage collapse on September 28, 1953. My Grandfather last crewed her a few days before.

My Grandfather’s name was Henry Greenwood, and his service number was 743606. He sadly passed away in August, 1992 at the age of 72. He was also a former “Bomber Boy”

This was my Grandfather FLt.Sgt H.A.J. Greenwood

10262119_751652904906878_4406311000622779276_n_zps8rgwtokw by Darren Greenwood, on Flickr

All things considered, it really must be the incident that you have linked, ie RF308 V of 37 sqn.

There is no evidence whatsoever that the above aircraft is RF308. Lancaster mishaps like the one above were hardly rare: it could well be that SW336 was repaired, and thus did not feature in any write off list. Unless another photo turns up showing the serial and the code letter, I’d be inclined to take the word of the chap who wrote the info on the back of the photo, after all, he was there at the time.

Walter,

Thanks for the info.

Best wishes
Steve P

38 Squadron codes

37 squadron used the first half of the alphabet and 38 used the second part.
This aircraft is V-Victor of 38 squadron.
Walter.

You are right, 37 only had single letter codes, and 38 had two letters. Unfortunately I can’t look at my material at mo, so couldn’t give precise letter ranges, I do know that 38 was LF up until at least 1949. To add to the confusion, 37sqn of that period was formed from elements of 38sqn, both also being based on Malta, the Lancasters would only carry the codes of the sqns operating them, but am wondering if aircrew may have crossed units occasionally?
All things considered, it really must be the incident that you have linked, ie RF308 V of 37 sqn.

That’s exactly what I was thinking Richard, the two incidents seem too coincidental, and according to that well researched site, there wasn’t another accident like it. But according to the post, both the Sqn and serial would be wrong. The log book would sort it for sure.

James – If the Lanc in the photo was with 38 Sqn at the time of the crash wouldn’t it be sporting that Squadron’s Code Letters ‘RL‘ and not just the single letter ‘V’ ?? What’s your view on that theory ?

Richard

That’s exactly what I was thinking Richard, the two incidents seem too coincidental, and according to that well researched site, there wasn’t another accident like it. But according to the post, both the Sqn and serial would be wrong. The log book would sort it for sure.

Evening all,

I have been asked by a very good friend of mine to post this pic to see if we can find some info about it.

The picture from his grandads collection, he was aircrew (wop/ag), this is the Lanc he served on while on 38 Sqdn post-war in Malta, serial SW 336, a Lanc GR.3 coded ‘V’.
Any info would be greatly welcomed.

Kindest regards,

John.

John – do we know for certain the serial of this crashed Lanc. as being ‘SW336’ ?
On the link http://www.aviationinmalta.com/Default.aspx?tabid=495 there is a list of crashes on Malta during the period 1950 -1959 and there is a mention of an incident on 28-9-1953 when Lancaster GR3 ‘RF308’ of 37 Sqn. “SWUNG ON TAKE-OFF, UNDERCARRIAGE COLLAPSED”.

Viewing the crash photo you’ve posted this could fit the bill – the undercarriage has definately collapsed in the shot. Any thoughts ?

Richard

There should be a Form 1180 for the aircraft on microfilm at Hendon but as they are indexed by type and date rather than serial number finding it would be fun.

Youv’e probably thought of this John, but if not, did his Grandad leave a log book? Should be mentioned in there. Can be good way of tieing serials to sqn codes (as these did change), but sometimes only the code letter was written down.

There should be a Form 1180 for the aircraft on microfilm at Hendon but as they are indexed by type and date rather than serial number finding it would be fun.

Equally, it could have gone there after service in the Med. It must have been stored somewhere when 37 and 38 Squadrons converted to shacks in the early 1950s. 38 MU would have fitted the bill perfectly.
Best wishes
Steve P

That is possible, but the general form was to fly the aircraft to Mawgans CCAPMF & CCMC, strip out the usefull kit (yes there was some!) and then take the aircraft to Wroughton for eventual breaking up.

It’s possible that SW336 did go through 38 MU before going to 38 Sqn as they did the storage and maintainance work on CC GR.3s.

Equally, it could have gone there after service in the Med. It must have been stored somewhere when 37 and 38 Squadrons converted to shacks in the early 1950s. 38 MU would have fitted the bill perfectly.

Best wishes
Steve P

Steve P, I would say is correct. It’s possible that SW336 did go through 38 MU before going to 38 Sqn as they did the storage and maintainance work on CC GR.3s.
The accident above dosen’t nescesarily look like a write of. All 38 sqn flyers where returned to the UK where they were stripped of kit at Mawgans CCMC, before being scrapped.
Somewhere I have details and pics of the last Lanc returning in ’54, but where?!

SW336 Conv ASR/GR.III, 37 sqn Apr 59, 38 MU Mar 52, SS(BA) Jul 56

If you can get through the jargon or all that!

Found the Air Britain lanc file. It differs from the above in that SW336 was allocated to 38 Squadron rather than 38 MU after 37 squadron. As both 37 and 38 Squadrons were based at Luqa, this would make sense. Air Britain normally record cat.E crashes so presumably SW336 was repaired (or equally possible, shoved to the back of the hanger pending replacement by a Shack). As Peter says, the damage doesn’t look too bad.

Best wishes
Steve P

Are you referring to SW344? I dont think so as it crashed through several houses and this original photo doesnt show that much damage. Alsmost looks like a runway overrun or ground loop and gear collapse?

Its sw336-

Have a look below-

http://www.aviationinmalta.com/Default.aspx?tabid=495

Could this be it?

Are we sure the serial is correct? I dont show anything listed for SX336 at all??

http://www.aviationinmalta.com/MilitaryAviation/AccidentsMilitary/tabid/392/Default.aspx

It says 59 in the book, but looking at it one would have thought 49 would make more sense!

I did a search from 1946 to 1959 and I cant find any mention of it? Plenty of Lanc and Lincolns W/O

http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/

One of the best books to look in would be ‘The Last Lanc’ by Patrick Kilvington, it lists just about every Lanc and a bit of its history.

As it happens i have one here.
For SW336 it reads as follows-

SW336 Conv ASR/GR.III, 37 sqn Apr 59, 38 MU Mar 52, SS(BA) Jul 56

If you can get through the jargon or all that!

Should that be 37 sqn Apr 49? not 59?

Regards,

John.