Lancaster Identity

25/26 February 1944
594 aircraft – 461 Lancasters, 123 Halifaxes, 10 Mosquitos – on the first large raid to Augsburg. The various diversions and the splitting of the main bomber force into 2 waves again reduced casualties still further. 21 aircraft – 16 Lancasters, 5 Halifaxes – lost, 3.6 per cent of the force; at least 4 of these casualties were due to collision.

Here is one “P” lost on th Augsburg raid

BARRETT, LEONARD CHARLES, Albert Place. 1467119, Sergeant, Wireless Operator/Air Gunner, 12 Squadron, Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve. Died 26th February 1944, missing on operations. Buried in Choloy War Cemetery, Meurthe-et-Moselle, France. Grave reference: 4. D. Coll. Grave 1-6.
W/Op in Avro Lancaster Mk I, Serial No ME632, Code Letters PH-P. T/o 1836 from Wickenby to bomb Augsburg. All seven crew were killed.

from http://www.warmemorial.firstworldwarrelics.co.uk/html/raf_wwii.html

Not sure that 106 squadron took part in the Augsburg Raid

a couple of examples to give the idea why some letters appear to be others. i think the little windows can be a nuisance sometimes

Halley’s book is wrong, 106 codes were ZN, the ZM coded Hampden illustrated is from 185 Squadron.

Hi Guys.

This was a crew fresh from OTU. They started their OTU course at the beginning of August 1943 (how long did such courses last?) The Navigator left the course after just eight days and was hospitalised for a significant medical reason (known) and which gave him a medical category which stated that he was fit for flying only as a non combatant passenger. He later served with distinction as an instructor.

The photograph does appear to show a ZN-G of 106 Squadron. However, Halley’s Squadrons of the RAF gives 106 Squadron codes as ZM and even has a photo of a Hampden to support that. The Squadron was at Syerston till October 43 so that does fit in with the earlier assertion that the airfield pictured is Syerston.

The confusion over P-Peter is, I suspect, of my own making. An unidentified crew photograph marked crew of P-Peter missing Augsburg 24th Feb 44 is the crew I am trying to identify. This crew consists of seven so either at HCU, LFS or Operational Squadron and does not include our, by now grounded, Navigator. I have no idea whether P-Peter was the code of an aircraft they flew either at OTU, HCU, LFS or indeed on a Squadron.

I think the only way to resolve this is to get hold of the ORB for 21 OTU and check whether my Navigator flew any training sorties (and with which crew) in the eight days before he was grounded.

Thanks again for your help.

Regards,

kev35

I think the thing to do would be to go through the crews lost on the 25th/26th February raid to Augsburg and see if any did their first tour on 106 Sqn. (Some crews even changed squadrons in mid-tour.) That would probably solve the riddle.

The phantom Z behind the main ZN code is formed by one of the fuselage windows and probably a scratch!

The addition of a 2 (or squared) after an id letter was introduced when squadrons started to exceed 26 aircraft and used up the entire alphabet. You’d therefore have ‘P Squared’ not replacing ‘P’ Peter but flying at the same time.

MP

P for Peter isn’t actually the aircraft name but the Squadron identification mark, hence the reason for the same quote reoccurring. The convention was to mark the aircraft alphabetical in large letters to avoid long walks around the airfield checking for the small aircraft serial number in search for the correct machine. The plan would also have been made easier by parking up in that order on the dispersals. Peter is ‘P’ in the old fashioned phonetic alphabet now replaced with Papa.

Some Squadrons with replacement aircraft also adopted a small number ‘2’ after the Identification letters to avoid confusion with previous aircraft that were no longer on the Squadron inventory.

Kev,

I don’t want to bog you down with bad information, but I’ve found many links to Lancasters named P-Peter, “P” Peter (DS707), and “P” for Peter. I don’t think this is what you’re looking for but here is an example:

“Among the Canadian aircraft approaching Berlin in the now-thinning cloud, was “P” Peter DS707, a Lancaster B Mk. II of 426 “Thunderbird” Squadron, out of Dishforth, Yorkshire, commanded by the “Berlin” Kid, Roger Coulombe.”

http://www.richthistle.com/aviation-articles-mainmenu-41/55-the-legendary-lancaster-bomber-ww2

AND THIS:

“This picture shows some of the damage suffered by Lancaster P for Peter of an unspecified Australian squadron, one of Nos.460, 463 or 467 Squadrons, the three RAAF squadrons operating the Lancaster on 22 April 1944 when this damage was suffered. The aircraft had been taking part in a raid on Dusseldorf.”

http://www.historyofwar.org/Pictures/pictures_lancaster_P-Peter.html

Any clarification as to the exact spelling of the aircraft name?

I’ve played with the picture in Photoshop and the code letters have to be adjusted individually in order to get them to stand out. In other words, the settings required to bring out the first letter are not the best settings to bring out the second or third letter, etc. Having said that, it does appear to me to be ZN-G and I reached that conclusion before I read others opinions on here. There may also be a “G” on the tail, but it’s too faint to tell for sure.

What puzzles me is that there appears to be another “Z” (and possibly other characters) to the left of the squadron code “Z”. I don’t think it is a photo or scanning artifact, but you’d have to look at the original photo to be sure. The “Z” I am seeing appears to be a smaller and thinner font than the squadron code Z. It is also sharper, clearer and more distinct than the other letters.

Would the squadron codes be red letters with yellow outlines? No outline?

106 Squadron left RAF Syerston in November 1943 and moved to Metheringham; with the Lancaster Finishing School forming at Syerston.

I’m currently helping with some research into some Australian personnel who went through Syerston in March / April 1944; and then onto 61 Squadron and 463 Squadron.

I can’t go into too much detail without permission as there is some sensitivity to this. There is no date attached to the photo. A Lancaster crew simply noted as the crew of P-Peter were lost on the Augsburg raid of 25/26/February 44 and this is a photo that was a prt of that small collection (not in my posession). I was hoping that if we could make out the Squadron code letters it might tie us to the Augsburg loss. Problem is no 106 Squadron aircraft, and the codes appear to suggest 106 Squadron, were lost on that raid.

Regards,

kev35

The jpeg appears to be titled “MunichBound”. Is there a date attached to the photograph? I ask only because there were only a handful of raids on Munich during 106’s time at Syerston and it would be interesting to know which one is depicted.

Also, what’s the tie in with the loss on the Augsburg raid – is this photo supposedly them on an earlier trip?

It is indeed a puzzle.

Regards,

kev35

that ends that question then lol

No Z? coded HCU ever operated Lancasters.

Regards,

kev35

Heavy Conversion Unit perhaps?

I think the IWM caption writer is getting his Squadrons confused. It was 103 at Elsham, not 106.

I was mulling over the ZN-G possible ident and found this:

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205090420 although not referenced to Syerston?

I think it is ZN-G as well but that doesn’t fit in with a Lancaster loss on the 25th/26th February raid to Augsburg. I think I really need to get hold of the 21 OTU ORB for August to October 1943 to get to the bottom of this one.

Thanks everyone for your help, if you get any more ideas I’d be delighted to hear.

Regards,

kev35

Looks like ZN G to me..

super sioux – if you PM me an email address I’ll send you a copy of a NAM newsletter that includes a few wartime photos of Syerston; Lancaster Finishing School era! 🙂