Lancaster RF141/Uncle Joe Again

I strongly suspect 682al,that you’re absolutely right.

It seems the mounting plate was fitted irrespective of whether the a/c had H2S,belly gun or neither fitted,in which case the mounting plate merely became a “blanking plate” to plug th’ole in the floor.

Cousin spadegrip reckon’s he’s seen the “towel rail” antennas on Stirlings,Hallys and Whitleys as well as Lancs and upon further investigation it appears that he’s correct too.

What’s even more apparent is that the towel rail appeared more so on a/c’s that were not H2S equipped,making it extremely probable that RF141 had
one fitted.

So there we are,one more piece of the “Uncle Joe Again”jigsaw in place.

Many thanks.

Mark

From my impeccable source, RF141 did not have H2S fitted.

A,A,A,A,A,Calm down,calm down(to be said in a Liverpudlian accent);) 😉 😉 😉

I like the new name al.Air Ministreh sinds rawther better,don’cha know:p :p :p .

Anyway,I didn’t end up wanting a shouting match chaps.

So which way do I go?,tall astro,short astro?

Lorenz “towel rail” or Rebecca/BABS “Yagi” antennas or both?

The colour profiles earlier on in this thread do seem to have Rebecca yagi’s and no towel rail,as to the astro height,that seems difficult to determin.

Miggers:D 😀

Wow sorry for speaking !! I still stand by my last post .

The Lorenz system was a German Beam system used for guide bombing so is technically different.

Lorenz was the original German manufacturer of the Blind Landing System adopted as standard by the Air Ministry just pre-war. The equipment was manufactured under licence in the UK.

The rear fuselage hand-rail was the Beam Approach aerial (BABS) which was interrogated by Rebecca. My reckoning is that any Lanc with the nose Rebecca aerials fitted also had the rear fuselage BABS hand rail aerial

Have you got a cite for that? My understanding is that the two systems were entirely seperate and did not “speak” to each other in any way. Long years of studying Lancaster photographs suggests to me that the Lorenz aerial disappeared as the BABs aerials were introduced. I have tracked down one photo of a Lanc with both, but this is a civil registered one post-war, and keeping the two systems might have made sense, given the aerodromes that it was expected to operate to/from.

All the Mk.1 Lancasters had the smaller astrodomes and the Aircam photo’s are no good in showing if it had the larger astrodome fitted later.

Not so, the taller astrodomes are to be seen on many later production Lancasters. It seems to have been an across the board mod, regardless of Mark.

And if you are wondering who this upstart is, jumping in at the deep end with his very first post, may I introduce myself, the member formerly known as 682al! 😉

Once again gents,I am indebted to you.

Many thanks.

Miggers:D

Guys,
http://www.qsl.net/pe1ngz/airforce/airforce-raf/raf-eureka-rebecca.html#Rebecca%20Mk%20I

a good site for BABS/Rebecca.

BABS Aerial

For Miggers,
All the Mk.1 Lancasters had the smaller astrodomes and the Aircam photo’s are no good in showing if it had the larger astrodome fitted later.
The rear fuselage hand-rail was the Beam Approach aerial (BABS) which was interrogated by Rebecca. My reckoning is that any Lanc with the nose Rebecca aerials fitted also had the rear fuselage BABS hand rail aerial. The Lorenz system was a German Beam system used for guide bombing so is technically different.

No,you are correct they had to guard the special equipment on board. It mean’t that nobody without authorisation was allowed anywhere near the aircraft.

The “G” suffix denoted that it had special equipment aboard for test, in this case probably Gee or Oboe for No.8 Group. The picture was taken from a Mosquito of 1409 flight piloted by Sqdn/Ldr N. Bicknell 14/7/44 at 15,500ft. The “G” suffix has been erased as has the original roundels which was in a non-standard position.The photograph was submitted by J.A.L.Currie (is it the famous No.12 Squadron pilot who has written a lot of Bomber books sadly now deceased ?)
I have the Aircam book No12 and it was published in 1970,by Osprey publications,and is still a gem on Lancaster information.

I always thought the “G” suffix meant that the aircraft was to be under guard at all times when on the ground? Obviously because of the sensitive nature of the equipment on board or the airframe itself.

Hey ho, shows how much, or more likely how little, I know.

Regards,

kev35

One more RF141 question please gents if I may.

Can anyone see from their pictures whether she had the small B.I or the taller B.III astrodome please.

Starfire,I’ve really started to look at this kit now and have spotted one or two noticable ommisions from the interior.

1.Bombsight/mounting bracket

2.Bomb aimer’s cushions on his compartment floor.

3.Handrails down into the bomb aimer’s compartment.

4.Flight engineer’s “dicky”seat,usally folded up between the main instrument panel and his own panel and protuding just above the canopy sill line.

I would have thought that for how much effort Revell have put into this kit they’d have included those because they’re very visible through the canopy
and/or nose blister.
They’ve put in fair representations of the flight engineer’s panel,the bomb sight computer,bomb release and release timer control panels.

Mark

Thanks guy’s, I have a copy of that pic, you have added even more detail, I am researching for a colleague who’s grandfather went down whith her ! he and I are indepted to you once again. Thank you. Keith.

The “G” suffix denoted that it had special equipment aboard for test, in this case probably Gee or Oboe for No.8 Group. The picture was taken from a Mosquito of 1409 flight piloted by Sqdn/Ldr N. Bicknell 14/7/44 at 15,500ft. The “G” suffix has been erased as has the original roundels which was in a non-standard position.The photograph was submitted by J.A.L.Currie (is it the famous No.12 Squadron pilot who has written a lot of Bomber books sadly now deceased ?)
I have the Aircam book No12 and it was published in 1970,by Osprey publications,and is still a gem on Lancaster information.

Sorry this is off thread. Whilst we have this huge collection of very knowledgeable lancaster people assembled in one place. I am still searching for a pic of lancaster ND931 60-H of 582 sqdn, have followed many routes with limited success. Thank you. Keith Newsome.

The only photo I am aware of is in the Aircam Aviation Series No. 12, Avro Lancaster In Unit Service. Authors Garbett & Goulding, and probably long out of print.

The photo was taken ten days before it was lost in action. It seems to have been a special aeroplane. The serial was ND931/G at one time, do you happen to know why it had the suffix?

Hello Miggers and 682al, I started a rostered 12 hour day shift at 04:45hrs today hence the late reply.
The port side shows a flat panel i am not sure on the starb side as all Mk.1 Lanc’s did have side blisters fitted from the factory. The picture at 22 MU Silloth was taken when censorship of the H2S radome had probably stopped.
It seems the early serialled i.e. R serials Lancs had the Lorenz aerials fitted so highly unlikely to have been fitted.

The Lancaster does seem in all its variants and cross mods to promote lengthy debate which makes this forum pleasurable in helping one another.

I think the towel rail you are referring to is for the early Lorenz type Blind Landing system.

As RF141 had the Rebecca/BABS system, I doubt it would have had the other type.

I wondered if that was it’s use!!
I’ve been searching the web to see if I could find out.Plenty of references to the system,but very,very few of the actual antenna itself.

Thanks again 682al,I’ll leave it off.A bit more for the spares box methinks:)

Mark

Sorry this is off thread. Whilst we have this huge collection of very knowledgeable lancaster people assembled in one place. I am still searching for a pic of lancaster ND931 60-H of 582 sqdn, have followed many routes with limited success. Thank you. Keith Newsome.

I think the towel rail you are referring to is for the early Lorenz type Blind Landing system.

As RF141 had the Rebecca/BABS system, I doubt it would have had the other type.

I strongly suspect 682al,that you’re absolutely right.

It seems the mounting plate was fitted irrespective of whether the a/c had H2S,belly gun or neither fitted,in which case the mounting plate merely became a “blanking plate” to plug th’ole in the floor.

Cousin spadegrip reckon’s he’s seen the “towel rail” antennas on Stirlings,Hallys and Whitleys as well as Lancs and upon further investigation it appears that he’s correct too.

What’s even more apparent is that the towel rail appeared more so on a/c’s that were not H2S equipped,making it extremely probable that RF141 had
one fitted.

So there we are,one more piece of the “Uncle Joe Again”jigsaw in place.

Many thanks.

Mark

Here’s my last word on RF141’s under fuselage fitting.

I think what I’m looking at on the photo of RF141 at 22 M.U. is the same as appears on this Lanc (467 Sqn), and I’m now fairly sure it’s the mount for an H2S scanner.

You mentioned that there is a piece in the kit which doesn’t seem to serve a purpose. Would it not be to replicate this mount?

Wondered where you’d been hiding cuz:D .

Well,it’s a new one on me alright.I thought towel rails only went on post-war iron.

This now begs the question did RF141 have one fitted?

See,you’ve opened up another can of worms now:confused: :confused:

BTW,I’ll have some Hally II decs for you in a day or two if you’re a good lad.

Miggs:D