Larger 747 remains possibility says Boeing

Agreed there…the current design wont be ble to hold the weight.

It could.

The 747 airframe as it is, is structurally very sound and could easily be adapted for an extended upper deck. The draw back would be the aerodynamics.

I think that if Boeing do go through with this, the upper deck will stay the size it is.

Agreed there…the current design wont be ble to hold the weight.

I think that if Boeing do go through with this, the upper deck will stay the size it is.

How about the -500: an upper deck stretch by 3 meters, plus a forward fuselage stretch of 1.5 meter, which keeps CG unchanged. It’s of course only a matter of 50 passengers…

The 747 is a 4 decade old airframe, too, Kab. And Sandy, 744 fleets ready for mainline retirement? They’re only what, 15 years old since first deliveries? you envisage it would take 5+ years to develop an enhanced 747?

And as for the 4 decade old 737 being capable for the job it does, yes, it is capable. But it’s also an ugly little bassa.

Bhoy, obviously not completley thought out right.

A stretch of the 747 could potentialy come online in 2010-2012. By which time the majority of the “modern” 747-400s now in service will be up for mainline retirement. You have to remember, the 400 has been in production since the 1980’s. BA for example have some of the oldest, but also some of the newest in Europe.

By the time a stretch 747 came online, BA would be ready to retire their current fleet of 747s. This situation will be similar to many other airlines, creating a nice little market for a new 747.

A 747NG with 7E7 interior and avionics would no doubt prove very popular.

Like the SUD versions! Alternatively, how about something like this?

Tried one myself with MS paint, not bad!

Good insight there, airlines will soon want a replacement for the 747’s built before 1993 or so.
Another thing… The 747’s current upper deck has six abreast seating (737 style). That isn’t very efficient isn’t it, to stretch it all the way backwards! That would make a widebody-like lower deck, and a a 737 like upper deck. This will create a capacity between the current 747-400 and the A380. That’s great!
On the other hand, stretching the upper deck would disturb the CG. A fuselage length change will have to be done anyway.

Superb pictures Tenthije 🙂 If Boeing were seriously considering redesigning the 747 I couldn’t envisage it would enter service for at least 5 years by which point the first 744 airframes would be 21 years old. Somehow I can’t see Boeing pinning all its hopes on just the 737NG (plus any future re-design) and the 7E7 in the future.

Could it be possible for Boeing to stretch the upper deck to the tail and to leave out one (or more) frames behind the wings? Because the rear fuselage is shorter it saves a bit of weight thereby ofsetting the added weight of the upper deck stretch. As a bonus the center of gravity would not move backwards due to the stretched upper deck.

The hump is one of the mayor aerodynamical features that make the 747 as economical as it is. Because of “area ruling” the hump kind a works like a wing, though I do not precisely how to explain it.

And what would this new version mean for the 744ER/ERF. It is not selling very fast right now. Only KLM, Air France and QANTAS operate them? Would the lack of succes of this new 747 scare Boeing away from mayor investment into the 747?

The 747 is a 4 decade old airframe, too, Kab. And Sandy, 744 fleets ready for mainline retirement? They’re only what, 15 years old since first deliveries? you envisage it would take 5+ years to develop an enhanced 747?

And as for the 4 decade old 737 being capable for the job it does, yes, it is capable. But it’s also an ugly little bassa.

A345 can only fly the distance it does because it is a lighter airframe with much less seating. Especially on these new ultra longhaul, with seating for just 180-200!

The 737 is a 4 decade old airframe.. would you say it is less capable for the job it does? No, not with over 1500 of the ng’s sold.

Increased range, better economy per seat?

Theres two more advantages.

Will it be able to match economy per seat offered by an Airbus 340 series? Secondly if they increase range it will come somewhere to what theA345 is offering at the moment. We should remember the 747 airframe has a limited capacity for upgradation, its a 2 decade old airframe and wont be able to compete succesfuly with the newer A340s.

Also, by the time a 747 advanced was ready. The current fleets of 747-400’s will be getting close to mainline retirement if not already there.

A new 747 would be perfectly placed to replace them.

Increased range, better economy per seat?

Theres two more advantages.

The 717 nothing more that the last in the line of MD-90s rebadged. Boeing had nothing to do with that realy. They tweaked a few things but they were no responsible for the overal engineering.

Revamping the 747 would apparently bring in orders. So if the costs are outweighed by sales it could be worth it.
A new 747 would encorporate lighter materials both for the interior and for the structure, the saving made would almost cancel out any potential weight gains due to the stretch.
The 747’s wing as it is provides plenty lift. A new wing or tweaked wing, perhaps with 767-400/777-300ER type strakes would be a benefit but not totaly necessary.

As for the engines, there are plenty to choose from. Bang 4 Rolls Royce trent 800’s on the wing and you have a viable power enhancement and range extension.

Revamping the B747 can be taken as a gamble…. remember when its revamped mostly he seating capacity will be the only majour advantage it will have n current Airbus products.

As said before the B747 stretch cant compete with the 380, but it sure can fill the gap between the 747 nd the 380, which many airlines might opt for.

my point from day one

We all know that Boeing has been re-designing existing airframes for a long time. For example the 717, and the 737. The 747 is also becoming an “older” design. Do you think this is good to recycle older designs? I think Boding made a good step designing something totally new (7E7), because the last time they did that was with the 757 and 767.
Apparently, redesigning the frames works, since the 737 is very competitive to the A320 and A319.
The 747 has been changed so much over the years with the use of composites replacing the bare metal partially. But stretching the 747, wouldn’t that bring a lot of problems.
-The aircraft will need a new wing to lift the increased weight.
-In order to increase the range, the aircraft will need new, more powerful engines (maybe four of the 7E7’s engines?)
-Maybe the weight would get a bit too high now for the current landing gear. The A380 has four wheels more than the 747 (2 sets are 777/TU154 like). The 747ER aircraft already have a slightly different landing gear than the basic series; but that doesn’t decrease the pressure on the ground.

The 717 nothing more that the last in the line of MD-90s rebadged. Boeing had nothing to do with that realy. They tweaked a few things but they were no responsible for the overal engineering.

Revamping the 747 would apparently bring in orders. So if the costs are outweighed by sales it could be worth it.
A new 747 would encorporate lighter materials both for the interior and for the structure, the saving made would almost cancel out any potential weight gains due to the stretch.
The 747’s wing as it is provides plenty lift. A new wing or tweaked wing, perhaps with 767-400/777-300ER type strakes would be a benefit but not totaly necessary.

As for the engines, there are plenty to choose from. Bang 4 Rolls Royce trent 800’s on the wing and you have a viable power enhancement and range extension.

As said before the B747 stretch cant compete with the 380, but it sure can fill the gap between the 747 nd the 380, which many airlines might opt for.

We all know that Boeing has been re-designing existing airframes for a long time. For example the 717, and the 737. The 747 is also becoming an “older” design. Do you think this is good to recycle older designs? I think Boding made a good step designing something totally new (7E7), because the last time they did that was with the 757 and 767.
Apparently, redesigning the frames works, since the 737 is very competitive to the A320 and A319.
The 747 has been changed so much over the years with the use of composites replacing the bare metal partially. But stretching the 747, wouldn’t that bring a lot of problems.
-The aircraft will need a new wing to lift the increased weight.
-In order to increase the range, the aircraft will need new, more powerful engines (maybe four of the 7E7’s engines?)
-Maybe the weight would get a bit too high now for the current landing gear. The A380 has four wheels more than the 747 (2 sets are 777/TU154 like). The 747ER aircraft already have a slightly different landing gear than the basic series; but that doesn’t decrease the pressure on the ground.