Evenin’ all.
Just read that Kurt Tank test flew the Focke-Wulf Ta154 in July 1943; an aircraft he’d also designed. In the early days of aviation this was almost the norm, with the designer often being the pilot, but during the post-W.W.I era this gradually became less and less the case until Tank was probably one of the last.
Without having a good look, I can’t think of any subsequent designer also test flying his (or her) design, although I’m of course thinking of types intended for mass production and use by the military or a major civil organisation; clearly there have been no end of test flights by microlight designers, and perhaps a number of light aircraft intended for private flying.
I’ll add I’m not thinking of designers who were also pilots – that’s hardly unusual.
Was Tank the last designer who test flew his own designs – intended for mass production and military use? Or were there others?
Any offers? Thoughts?
By: DazDaMan - 17th May 2006 at 14:55
You’re not perhaps thinking of the Hughes Me262?
By: J Boyle - 17th May 2006 at 14:41
Didn,t Kurt want the Americans to race the Fw190D13 at Reno after the war or is that just an urban legend??Also heard it kicked serious @ss up against the Tempest during testing.Now where can I find 6 million dollars to buy it…Anyone want a kidney???
Unlimited air racing began at Reno in 1964…were any left in flyable condition by then?
There were post war air races in Cleveland in the late 40s…until a fatal crash into a neighborhood, and military jets, made the sport irrelevant from a technological standpoint (one of its original goals).
By: TempestV - 17th May 2006 at 10:28
??? :diablo:
By: Moggy C - 17th May 2006 at 10:25
No criticism of the aircraft implied or intended. I have never flown one but believe they are very competent.
Was it just retirement, or did a small fiasco with sales to a foreign government contribute?
Moggy
By: TempestV - 17th May 2006 at 10:16
Moggy
“It also has a big time problem with its undercarriage and the authorities which has left most of them grounded, unless I am very confused?”
Yes it did. The CAA decided to “raise the bar” regarding the undercarriage loading. The original design was passed 100% ok by them in the 80’s.
Unfortunately, following 2 occurences where pilots decided to “land” at a descent rate, where no aircraft undercarriage could have survived (with the exception of a carrier type!) and their slipper tank risked being punctured. New undercarriage has been designed to new legislation.
To date, no-one has ever been killed in a Shadow, and there have never been any airframe failures over 25 year history. I have flown in one many times.
By: Moggy C - 17th May 2006 at 10:00
A good friend of mine – Dave Cook.
Designer/Pilot/Owner/Salesman of CFM Metal Fax of Leiston, Suffolk.
Aviation Award winner, multiple world record holder, proudly British.
The aircraft has superior flying qualities compared with any of its class, and makes inovative use of affordable materials
It also has a big time problem with its undercarriage and the authorities which has left most of them grounded, unless I am very confused?
Moggy
By: TempestV - 17th May 2006 at 09:56
Dave Cook
A good friend of mine – Dave Cook.
Designer/Pilot/Owner/Salesman of CFM Metal Fax of Leiston, Suffolk.
Aviation Award winner, multiple world record holder, proudly British.
Sadly the company is no longer in existence, because he has retired, but he was personally responsible for selling 400+ Shadow series Ultralights in the 80’s and 90’s. The aircraft has superior flying qualities compared with any of its class, and makes inovative use of affordable materials, hence making aviation more affordable to all.
Who says that the British aircraft industry was in decline.
By: Dave Homewood - 17th May 2006 at 09:13
Pat Monk did some of the test flying of the CT-4 Airtrainer which he designed, as well as ground testing (including the canopy jettison test where the prototype was tethered behind a C-130 Hercules with engines running full tilt to simulate airspeed).
However, I don’t believe Pat was actually a pilot, ie with a licence. I’m not certain, but I think he didn’t have a licence, but he went up on some of the test flights with a test pilot and did some flying himself to test the limits of his design work from what I recall him telling me over the years. I cannot ask him again now, sadly he has Parkinsons disease and doesn’t remember anything.
Oh, and yes the Airtrainer did serve in numbers with the military in New Zealand, Australia, Thailand and Indonesia, plus some Asian police forces. It was built in a factory with a large staff, which continues today to produce aircraft (NZAI/PAC have produced Flectchers, Crescos and PAC-750’s as well as Airtrainers. Pat also designed the Cresco and did much improvement design work on the Fletcher family and the Airtourer family)
By: QldSpitty - 17th May 2006 at 07:57
Didn,t Kurt want the Americans to race the Fw190D13 at Reno after the war or is that just an urban legend??Also heard it kicked serious @ss up against the Tempest during testing.Now where can I find 6 million dollars to buy it…Anyone want a kidney???
By: Grendel - 16th May 2006 at 20:29
But, did Tank fly the Hindustan HF-24 Marut as well?
To my understanding, no. Indians forbade him from test flights, as they were afraid about Tank getting hurt or killed. The project would halt if that happened, and Tank finally agreed on the Indians demand.
By: Mark A - 16th May 2006 at 18:53
Messieurs Joly, Delmontez and Robin were all involved with their test flying.
There aren’t many one-man designs that go into production these days, but still quite a few designer/pilots in recent history – Des Norman, Dick Van Grunsven, Ivan Shaw ….
By: Cliffair - 16th May 2006 at 17:28
Howard Hughes with spruce goose or does that not count?
Cliff
Drat, curses 25degsouth beat me to it 😉
By: ZRX61 - 16th May 2006 at 16:07
Geoff DeHavilland? (Jnr)
By: 25deg south - 16th May 2006 at 15:52
But, did Tank fly the Hindustan HF-24 Marut as well?
Certainly not for the first flight ( Wg Cdr Das ) He would have been getting on a bit by then I think. Nevertheless the HF 24 in the Deutches Museum is to commemorate his contribution. Dont think he flew the Helwan 300 either.
By: Jan - 16th May 2006 at 15:25
Kurt Tank continued his practice of test flying his designs post-war. The first engineless aerodynamic prototype of the IAe. 33 Pulqui II, was first flown by Tank as a glider. More of this can be found here: http://ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2002/06/stuff_eng_profile_pulqui.htm
But, did Tank fly the Hindustan HF-24 Marut as well?
Regards,
Jan
By: 25deg south - 16th May 2006 at 15:14
Frank Robinson……)
By: 25deg south - 16th May 2006 at 15:08
Howard Hughes………:)
By: J Boyle - 16th May 2006 at 14:51
Several helicopter designers…and usually by necessity (often “one man” companies) were also test pilots. Their activity was during the same period as Mr. Tank…
Recall seeing Igor Sikorsky flying the VS-300 while wearing his fedora?
The (recently) late Stanley Hiller and Frank Paisecki (“father” of the tandem rotor helicopters: HUP/H-21/CH-46 and Chinook…) were also inventors/designers/test pilots.
One of the noteable exceptions was Arthur Young…because he was working for the Bell Aircraft Company, they could afford to have a test pilot for the model 30s that served as the prototypes for the Bell 47. I do believe he did fly them occasionally.
By: 25deg south - 16th May 2006 at 14:50
Ask him. 🙂
By: JDK - 16th May 2006 at 14:41
JDK, I think you are at odds with the facts regarding Ken Wallis and his aircraft. His primary intention was always for them to be employed mainly in the defence sector , never really for light civil GA use. Indeed ,it was in the military sector that the type came close to production on at least two occasions to my certain knowledge.
Yes, but… He didn’t have a factory, a multi-million business, thousands of employees and the RAF / Army weren’t waiting with bated breath…
And while you are quite correct in his intent and approach for military use, it was him approaching them (like Miles) not the other way around. There is a world of difference between being asked by the government to produce an aircraft and offering one to the government yourself…
He was also keen (quite rightly) on any other potential use, and followed those up too. I don’t think it’s fair to just emphasis the military aspect alone. There were many. They were all tackled seriously by Ken. None led to production.
The crunch fact is that (sadly) Wallis Autogyros has never been a big company with hundreds or thousands of aircraft out there. That’s my point.
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May 16, 2006 at 10:16 am