learning to fly

Learning to fly

Do not go for the ‘cheapest’ and any sort of ‘up-front’ discount scheme.
You may have to travel a bit further to learn with an ‘established’ school that is operating decent equipment.

Welcome to the forum Helpangelz. There are many credible places to learn to fly in the UK. There are also many many books on the subject and schools. I wish you luck in your journey, and you should certainly keep us informed with how things are going.

Depends where you are in the UK, I would also register at this other site below and ask as well,

Link

http://www.pprune.org/

🙂

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As reccomended by Deano i’ll put this here:

Just incase others may benefit.

Wozza, how old are you first? if you have not left school yet let me say that you need to get yourself a good education, that is No 1 priority, forget your airline career if you are still 15 etc, I would suggest you try and get to University and get a degree, you don’t need one to fly planes BUT come the interview stage if you were up against someone who hasn’t got one it’s “highly likely” they will call you instead, basically you need to do something which makes you stand out from the crowd.
In the meantime I would suggest you stay living with your parents, this is the cheapest option open to anyone, if I had my time again I would not have moved out until I gained my fATPL CPL/IR etc.
As for funding, well the first part is as mentioned above, stay living at your olds’ place if they’ll have you, in the meantime (even if you are at school) I would suggest you save everything you earn, get a part time job, and save, this is the hardest part with one being so young is saving, I know, I was young once (I know that’s hard to believe 🙂 ), if you don’t go to Uni then try and get a well paid job, all this is pretty obvious but you have to be 100% committed from the off.
You then need to ask yourself if you want to go integrated, or modular, we’ve already discussed the pricings above, integrated will cost alot more but the up side is that you “could” get put forward for the airlines straight after training, so there is no need for sponsorship, if you go Modular then you can continue to work and earn money to pay for your flying, alternatively, you can get yourself off to your local flying club, and ask if they will exchange work for flying hrs towards your PPL, just be carefull because when you start training you will need to be in a position to carry on the training and then stay current afterwards, this is where alot of PPLs let their licenses lapse, they think that they have the 6k or so to get the license but then it costs a whole lot more to keep current post PPL.
HSBC do, or used to do a career development loan, go into your local HSBC branch and ask if they still do, if they do then it may be worth opening an account with them, even now, at least you will be using them when the time comes to applying for the loan, if they don’t do this loan then I think Barclay’s do it, check it out.
Alternatively, airline sponsorship could be a route to explore, EasyJet do one through CTC called their wings program, check it out here CTC Wings , also FlyBe do one called FlyBe MAPS, check it out here FTE , there are various schemes around at the moment, some closed for this year, I suggest buying copies of Flight International & Today’s Pilot etc and check out the back pages for news on sponsorships, my flying club are paying for 2 students to go from ab-initio straight through to fATPL CPL/IR, all they have to do is work for the company and they pay them via the scheme which is fantastic.
First & foremost Wozz get that education, even if you do not go to Uni make sure you get some good A levels at the very least, all the sponsorship courses will expect you to have at least A levels, again as for funding, try and get the career development loan, if not then you will have to get a job which enables you to pay for it as you go, but the modular route.

Good luck

Dean

As reccomended by Deano i’ll put this here:

Thanks for the information, however what can you suggest as concerns the funding, I have no option but to find funding privately should I take it as a career from the beginning of my working life, don’t have a rich family, and obviously have yet to start work, thus meaning I have no cash of my own.

Saddleing me with a £50K debt for the first 15ish years of my life is an option, however would like to know what sponsorship schemes are open, I have yet to find an airline that is continuing its own but would applying on an individual case, organising terms with an airline to provide the funding be a viable option?

How long it takes depends on:
a) How fast you learn.
b) How often you can afford lessons.
If you can afford a lesson a week it’ll be a lot quicker than if you can only fly once a month. If you can afford two lessons a week it should be even quicker. Then you have to allow for the vagaries of British weather which often extends the time taken to gain your licence

Forgot to add that CRC clearance is basically a police check on your criminal background & history
MMR is a Multi Mode Receiver, can be a receiver for the ILS, VOR, MLS & markers, generally a receiver for the ILS, MLS & D-GPS used for instrument landings.

Hope this helps

Dean

Wozza

The old CAA PPL etc does not exist now, well when I mean exist I mean people who are to undertake training, it will be a JAR PPL.
As for timescales etc it really is person specific, I’ll try and answer as best I can giving my personal timescale.

Obtained PPL in July 2003, spent some time deliberating about ATPL training, happily flying friends & family around, then I saw the chance to be sponsored by PPRuNe for my ATPL studies, so I applied and was successful, the whole process took over a year because the interviewers were all aircrew and it was difficult getting everyone together at the same time, once I got through the interview stage I had to pass the GAPAN aptitude test, and only then was I allowed the sponsorship, so come Feb 2005 I had the go-ahead, I then ordered my ATPL Module 1 books from Bristol Ground School, they arrived late Feb, in the meantime my wife was 4 months pregnant as well as having an 8 month old baby, so rather than get stuck in to my books I spent alot of time decorating the nursery etc, before I knew it my 2nd child arrived in July and I had hardly touched the books, I then had to knuckle down and start some serious study, the only way I would do this is if I booked the 2 week intensive brush-up course & exam week, so I did this for the October & November last year, so from the end of July I was studying non-stop every day until the brush-up & exam 3 weeks, once the first 8 exams were out the way I ordered my Mod2 books, these arrived early December, and again the only way to really get motivated was to book the brush-up & exams, so I did this for April with exams in May this year. I passed the exams so now I have to do 35hrs of hr building to start the CPL, you need 150hrs to start it with certain criteria within those 150hrs, I took the time in Feb to do my night rating as you cannot get the CPL issue without the night rating, a bit of forward thinking would see me doing the CPL in the summer hence no chance of a night rating due to the long summer evenings. I hope to start the CPL in August which will be 3 weeks solid, then after than start the ME IR, and then the MCC to which I am hoping to be all done by Christmas just before I get made redundant.

You can see the general picture building here as far as timescales go, all this is the modular route, and bearing in mind I have 2 children under the age of 2 & a full time job, if you went integrated you should be able to complete it a fair few months earlier than me, the ATPLs took me about 10 months by the time I knuckled down to them, which for modular is pretty good.
As for costs I’ll try to be as objective as I can, bearing in mind alot of what I put is generally with 1st time passes & minimum hrs for everything.

PPL, 45hrs, – £5k – £7k in the UK, cheaper if you go abroad
Hr building, £120 per hour for 100hrs, can do it cheaper if you go abroad or get a good package, be careful about group ownership, it may not work out cheaper in the long run, hiring can be just as cheap, I have been quoted £90 per hr for a PA-28 140.
Night Qualification, 5hrs at about £150 per hr
ATPL exams, £2000 modular, £60 per exam x 14 = £840, plus 2 weeks brush-up accomodation, plus 1 week exam venue accomodation and food for the 3 weeks, then you have to double this because you have to do this twice, basically double the £2000 it costs for the ATPLs. (unless you get sponsorship 😀 but it’ll still cost you £2000 for the accom. etc)
SE CPL, £4500 should take about 3 weeks
MER, £2500, can get this done in 1 week
ME IR, £11,500 – £12,500, should take about 6 weeks or more
MCC, £2500 – £6000, a 2 week course.

If you go modular, you should be able to complete the whole thing in around 2½ years, maybe earlier, it all depends on you, remember with modular the only thing driving you forward is your own self motivation. If you go Integrated you should be able to complete it within 18 months – 2 years, dependant on who you do it with.
Modular, you should be able to do the whole thing for about £35-40k
Integrated, anywhere between £50 – 75k, the good thing about integrated is that generally the airlines prefer this route, so they tend to recruit direct from integrated schools, some airlines say they have no preference, some say that if you do go the modular route then they prefer continuity of training, i.e. all flight training with the same organisation.
As for finance, well HSBC used to do a career development loan, you had to come up with a business plan on how you see yourself over the next 10 years etc, or basically have rich parents, or just plain & simple hard work from yourself, I would suggest to you to not even think about moving out of your parent’s house if you wish to undertake the training, their 100% support is something you will need, and that of any loved ones you may have, it can be done, even if you don’t earn a fortune, but you have to make sacrafices and be prepared to make them, one thing I can guarantee, it’s a looong hard road with lots of hurdles, you have to be 110% committed, anything less will not do.

Good luck, and if there is anything at all I can help you with please mail or PM me

Dean

I’ll ask Deano to pop across and answer your questions.

Moggy

Cheers Moggy,

I have noticed that some organisations, for instance Cabair, offer full training from scratch up to the required APTL standard that airlines require before they will take you on and provide relevant training specific to the Job, however the costs are in the region of £50,000 – how are people, such as myself, supposed to raise that sort of capital,

Wozza

I’ll ask Deano to pop across and answer your questions.

Moggy

Hey,

Did some further research into the prospect of this, and have reversed my decision on becoming a commercial pilot, its a prospect of a few I am considering.

Moggy, would you happen to know if that PPL on the website is the CAA PPL or the JAR/CAA PPL – and once this obtained, what is the timescale, costs and steps involved to get up to an ATPL – as most airlines require this before training you up for employment,

Wozza

EDIT:

– What would ‘CRC Clearance’ and ‘MMR Qualified’ mean?

You might consider learning in the US…

Thats a long way to go every weekend??!! 😉

I do not want to be a pilot

sorry old chap, but if you want to learn to fly you must become a pilot – or an aviator

just do it – it’s great fun (especially in those strange aircraft with the steering wheel at the back! 😀 )

You might consider learning in the US…

Not a recommendation, as I know nothing of them, but if you just click along HERE you’ll find information from a typical flying school that is close to you.

Looks like about £6,000 total, but no particular reason why you can’t spread that out over a year or eighteen very enjoyable months.

Don’t forget, gaining your PPL is really quite a small milestone after the enormous rush of your first solo. From that momentous day onwards much of your training will be flown solo, the only thing the licence brings extra is the freedom to choose your own destination, and also to carry passengers.

The tip is to settle down and really enjoy the training, don’t look upon it as a hurdle to be got past.

Best of luck, keep us informed of how you get on.

Moggy

BY767 – It may be worth bearing in mind that I speak to professional pilots almost every day so feel my experience may be a little more valid judging by your profile. I am trying to provide a balanced opinion and to indicate that it isn’t as common as you imply to join the ATC. Please respect that.

Wozza – Another option is the university air squadron should you opt to do a degree course. Not all unis offer the UAS but it may well be an option.

Hugh Jarse,

I acknowledge that you have years and years more experience than I do, and that you talk to professional pilots on a daily basis. I completely respect that, and was not at all disagreeing with you so I’m a little confused in regard to your latest post which, seemed to me to be a little… cold, I suppose :confused:

Please do not think I am trying to be self-important or claiming to know it all, as I’ll be the first to admit that I don’t and that there’s a lot I’ve still to learn!

Perhaps a minor misinterpretation – apologies from me if I sounded a bit arrogant or disrespectful towards you. As I mentioned earlier, I have a great deal of respect for guys like you with plenty of first hand experience. 🙂

————————————————————————–

Anyway back on topic and I’ve heard about these University Air Squadrons. The nearest to me is BUAS (Bristol Uni Air Sqn) stationed at RAF Colerne. That’s where 3AEF are and where I do my ATC flying. I don’t know much about them though. How do they work and how do you get accepted on them?

Charlieflies, Welcome to the forum 🙂

Regards,

Joe

Hi there I am new to this forum, so hi everyone! I am 15 yrs old and i am seriously looking into a career in aviation. I have had two trial flights and now i have decided after much thinking i want to persue this and start my PPL.

I live near Harrogate about 20 mins from Leeds Bradford, I would ideally like to start learing to fly next year possibly during my A-levels. Does anybody know how far I can be trained at Multiflight at Leeds? Also if anywhere in yorkshire there is a facility that would be able train me up to a passernger a/c rating?

I am looking at part/self fuding this over a period of several years, as that means I can start learing virtually straight away. Does anybody have any tips that i could utilise as I do not really want to wait 3+ years to do an intergrated course as this does mean i cannot spread the cost over a long period of time.

Cheers any help would be much appreciated
Charlie

Wozza, the only tip I can give you is get your PPL at the earliest stage, i.e. 17. and work quickly on it, right up to when you get in that right hand seat. If you do it young, you can pay the loans off, you won’t always have that doubt, that I do, about not getting a job at 25 and having to pay it back until your 33 and trying to train for something else due to airlines not recruiting.

For me, I feel too old to study for my ATPL, I’ve not even looked at Module one in the past few months.

All the best. Flying is not hard, but the studying is.

Well, as said by by767 i bet most people here wolud like to take up a career in the air if i can’t be an airline pilot then i’d probly try to get a job being a flight attendant.
in ‘exampa’s link it said to get sponsored by an airline but how?

BY767 – It may be worth bearing in mind that I speak to professional pilots almost every day so feel my experience may be a little more valid judging by your profile. I am trying to provide a balanced opinion and to indicate that it isn’t as common as you imply to join the ATC. Please respect that.

Wozza – Another option is the university air squadron should you opt to do a degree course. Not all unis offer the UAS but it may well be an option.