Less Common Post-1939 Transport Aircraft

Sorry, avion ancien, I’ve moved the captions around to make it clear….it referred to my shot from Blackbushe , not the one you bought

Could you continue on the new thread (Less Common Transport Aircraft) so this one doesn’t go onto a second page… I changed the title so we could discuss transport aircraft from all periods ….regards, Mick

No problem. As you’ll see from my edit, on reflection I thought that I had got the wrong end of the stick. This post draws a line under this thread.

Clarification

Sorry, avion ancien, I’ve moved the captions around to make it clear….it referred to my shot from Blackbushe , not the one you bought

Could you continue on the new thread (Less Common Transport Aircraft) so this one doesn’t go onto a second page… I changed the title so we could discuss transport aircraft from all periods ….regards, Mick

Thats one I shot earlier, Blackbushe 1958

……….if so,then:

a. did I buy the print from you on eBay or is there someone else selling your photos there!

b. did you photograph the aeroplanne for SNCASO at the time because the reverse of the print is stamped –

SNCASO
Nº 2117
SG4 – COURBEVOIE

and in manuscript there is-

Sud Ouest SO.30 P. Bretagne

and I’d be interested to know more of the provenance of the photograph.

and later………………..

Longshot, I may have got the wrong end of the stick. You may be saying that you photographed this aeroplane rather than took the photo I posted! If so, please ignore the questions that I pose above.

The Curvy Sud Ouest Bretagne…sans doute

I shot this Bretagne, Blackbushe, September 1958 with a Brownie 127
http://www.airliners.net/photo/France—Navy/Sud-Ouest-SO-30P-Bretagne/0847996/L/

on this link a selection of other goodies, Blackbushe 1958, incl the RFW Multoplan!
http://www.abpic.co.uk/results.php?q=blackbushe%201958&fields=all&sort=latest&page=0&limit=50

and on 1000 aircraft photos the Nene version of the Bretagne, the SO-30R
http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/Braas/4343.htm

I’ve restarted the thread as ‘Less Common Transport Aircraft’ to cover all periods so I shall post the Bretagne pic on there shortly as a crossover

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?p=1317606#post1317606

Try this one. It shouldn’t be too hard to identify by reference to the theme at the start of this thread.

Miles HDM-105 Aerovan

Mid-fifties version of the Aerovan with the Hurel Dubois high aspect ratio wing

Cunliffe Owen Concordia

An original design produced at Eastleigh post war, would be interesting to see a shot of Concordia #2 G-AKBE

link to current Concordia thread…..

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?p=1316658

Burnelli types

The Cunliffe Owen OA-1 flown to the Free French in Bangui Central Africa by Jim Mollison in June 1941* (scanned from the L.A.M edition of the defunct ICARE magazine).(strictly a pre 1939 type?)…and the Canadian Car and Foundry assembled CBY-3 at Cartierville(later Canadair’s plant) in 1945 scanned from the excellent Pickler/Milberry Canadair history

*route Kemble-Portreath-Gibraltar-Malta-Cairo-Wadi Haifa-Khartoum-El Obeid-El Fasher-Geneina-Fort Archambault-Bangui from Jim Mollison, The Flying scotsman by David Luff

Lockheed Saturn

First flight 1946 , scrapped 1948, unable to compete with cheaper surplus military types….Lockheed photo scanned from ‘Lockheed Twins’, Air Britain

Lockheed Saturn

Good one, Mr Creosote! Nice and obscure….Lockheed pics on link ….includes theSaturn….and the Constitution

http://www.kbhrr.com/gallery/lockheed.php

and I believe its in Peter Marsons Lockheed Twins available from Air Britain

Lockheed Saturn, anyone? (Cant post pictures here at work, sorry) If memory serves, the only Lockheed transport that didn’t make it.

I think it was silver but can’t really say for sure.

The fuselage of the Cormoran was used as a workshop at Villacoublay until at least the mid-1950s. I saw it the same day as I took those Sahara photos on the other thread but it was too far away to be photographed. Also saw an Armagnac over the Wirral back in the 1950s. It did indeed look like a big Viscount but the piston engine sound was the giveaway! It was probably the rarest aircraft I ever saw from home in those days, apart from an AJ-2 Savage, but I digress.

Was it painted matt back? I recall seeing a forward fuselage / cockpit there in 1969 … don’t think I photographed it though!

Longshot, many thanks for the heads up on the AJ-2 sites! Back to the Armagnac – this one was, I suggest, en route Dublin on a rugby charter as it was westbound over the Wallasey VOR. I may have a date for it somewhere.

LHR, 17/2/58, F-BAVF, SAGETA (though it was ex-TAI), operating an AF Paris run substituting for Viscount on maintenance.

Cormoran , Armagnac

The fuselage of the Cormoran was used as a workshop at Villacoublay until at least the mid-1950s. I saw it the same day as I took those Sahara photos on the other thread but it was too far away to be photographed. Also saw an Armagnac over the Wirral back in the 1950s. It did indeed look like a big Viscount but the piston engine sound was the giveaway! It was probably the rarest aircraft I ever saw from home in those days, apart from an AJ-2 Savage, but I digress.

Atcham Tower ….I have an Armagnac at Heathrow in my spotting log from the late Fifties, noted as T.A.I wrongly I suspect….can’t remember it at all though!! Maybe your one was doing a rugby charter to Scotland?

Google ‘Wooster Hatwing Savage’ for hours of reading about the AJ and carrier borne P2Vs!

BZ308

Alertken……

how could Centaurus in 1947 compete with the reliability/economy of big Pratts and Wrights?

There remains a strong Left, Yank-bash strain in Italy.

The designer, Stelio Frati, of those sleek Falcos/Nibbios/Picchios, learnt his trade on the BZ.308 team.

I can’t confirm the BZ308 visiting Northolt but Flight records it visiting Filton… I read BEA funded the engines….the civil Centaurus (e.g in the Ambassador?) was never as powerful as the R-4360 and R-3350 TC which would have put the BZ 308s performance in the DC-4 league?

I like snippets like the Stelio Frati one, thank you

DC-5 ….a little more

John Hopton’s post on the DC-5 in the 1000 aircraft photos site has a potted history of one of the four which reached KNILM in Indonesia( PH-AXE/PJ-AIZ/PK-ADC/41-426/VHCXC/ Yankee Pasha/Bagel Lancer),eventually the last DC-5 survivor in Israel

http://www.1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/Hopton/5545.htm

and on the BoeingImages site, a page including a shot of 2 DC-5s on the dock(Long Beach?) for shipment to KNILM

search’DC-5′ in http://www.boeingimages.com/BoeingCSharpSite/Help.aspx

The fuselage of the Cormoran was used as a workshop at Villacoublay until at least the mid-1950s. I saw it the same day as I took those Sahara photos on the other thread but it was too far away to be photographed. Also saw an Armagnac over the Wirral back in the 1950s. It did indeed look like a big Viscount but the piston engine sound was the giveaway! It was probably the rarest aircraft I ever saw from home in those days, apart from an AJ-2 Savage, but I digress.

LS: BZ.308 “killed off by the Marshall Plan”. from the Wiki entry:…”along with the pressures to close down the Aeronautical section of the Breda industries as requested by the Marshall plan, led to the project being abandoned.” The first part of the entry is: “financial problems and the realisation that competition from American-built airliners would take a major share of the post-war airliner market…” Big was seen by Euro design teams, 1944-48, as good – how else to try to take on C-54, C-69? But the leap from 1938 structures technology was too great – see Brigand to Brabazon, (licenced) Walrus to Princess. That, plus dependability: how could Centaurus in 1947 compete with the reliability/economy of big Pratts and Wrights?

There remains a strong Left, Yank-bash strain in Italy. The European Economic Recovery Program was, precisely, an anti-Soviet tool, which succeeded. It required transparency by recipients in disposition of $/materials, similar now to IMF scrutiny. If Italy had filled in the forms correctly, she could have put $ to benefit BZ.308, just as UK did for T.167, SR.45, et al.

The designer, Stelio Frati, of those sleek Falcos/Nibbios/Picchios, learnt his trade on the BZ.308 team.