Lets bring McDonnell Douglas back! Do you agree?

Thank you very much 🙂 I love aviation a lot and I hope to do something in my career. And everyone on here really have some fantastic points and as you pointed out has developed a bit of interest in which I like doing.

One of my old mentors gave me a bit of advice which may be relevant.
Never let your grasp exceed your dreams, for without dreams , what is Man ?
This homely has served me well over the years.

Nostalgia makes up a vast proportion of the content of this website.

I thought it was old tossers, ukippers, and old tosser ukippers that made up a vast proportion of the content of this website. :eagerness:

Nostalgia makes up a vast proportion of the content of this website. No harm there. half the kids at aircraft museums or steam railways know nothing of what they were like in service, the thread starter is any different. Despite his first thread being very unfairly dumped at a whim it has appeared that actually given time the thread has developed a bit of interest and gone places so good for him even if his dream of resurrecting some of the aircraft is unlikely.

MD1997, I hope you continue to develop your passion for aviation. Like the others have said, start small but by all means dream big!

Oooh, brand nostalgia.

Somewhat ironic given that the thread started is 17, but then again I find airliners of any era to be deathly dull. Maybe I should start a thread on all the stuff I want brought back from before I was born, starting with scurvy and culminating in Gresley-designed locomotives.

Actually I think somebody should take one of the numerous surviving Vulcan B2s and convert it into a B1. I will do it myself with a spoke shave and an angle grinder if somebody pays for my transport. Anybody got a can of white paint?

Oooh, brand nostalgia. In addition to Douglas (pre MD) I miss Convair, Lockheed and deHavilland in the airliner market too.

If you would like an overview of the various trials and tribulations of the american aviation industry try ‘Pushing the Envelope’ by Donald Pattillo.

… and now to think of it McDonnell seems to be the people who ruined Douglas.

Again, I’m not sure we can say McDonnell ruined Douglas….
Douglas got themselves into financial trouble thus necessitating the merger. I’ve read that Mr. Douglas always paid himself very well…and had his son take over when he retired.

The usual explanation is cash flow…they had to expand to meet demand for jetliners…but couldn’t raise their prices enough to cover the extra expenses. This coming at a time of high inflation and at a time when many govt contracts were ending or contracts they didn’t get, like the C-5, the limited production of the C-133 and the cancellation of a space contract (but I’d think the A-4 should have been a cash cow).

Boeing bought MCDD for one reason, to get the C17 contract…

I’m sure the F-15 and 18 lines aren’t exactly “loss leaders”…otherwise they’d have been sold to Northrop Grumman by now (if the govt. anti-trust folks would allow it).

II’m not sure Boeing “ruined” McDD. The end of the line had come for their commercial production.

Boeing bought MCDD for one reason, to get the C17 contract… & if Northrop get the B3 contract expect to see Boeing swallow up that company too.

Oh right I understand. I was speaking with an aviation analyst and he said that the merge with McD and Douglas was disastrous it didn’t go down well. However, Douglas has made some fantastic aircraft and now to think of it McDonnell seems to be the people who ruined Douglas.

You seen this??? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-144

Of course the Russians couldn’t resist a copy of Concorde!!!

And you mentioned that C-54 is facing the axe? What do you mean?? Are they scrapping them or something?.

Past threads on this forum have indicated that there are 2 or 3 at North Weald with very uncertain futures.

As far as company history…at the risk of oversimplification: McDonnell was flush with money following the success of the F-4 Phantom.
About the same time, Douglas was having serious cash flow problems despite the order book success of the DC-8 and DC-9….not to mention successes with the A-4 and other post war military aircraft programs (the A-1, F3D, F4D, C-124, C-133, A-3 and B-66). A merger made good sense. Again, I’d refer you to Francillon’s Putnam books, in an overview that have lots of sales and earning numbers.
Yes, Boeing bought McDD for it’s military programs…the F-15/F-18/C-17 and others. And while the DC-9/MD-80/MD90 was still viable, (the DC-10/MD-11 was past its “sell by” date as twinjets had taken over) Boeing didn’t need to continue it since its own 737 was doing well by that time.

The Chinese ARJ-21 looks suspiciously like a DC-9

Nitpicking, perhaps, but the DC-10 was very much a Douglas design, well before the takeover. As I understand it the MD-10 was a quite rare post-merger update of old DC-10 airframes with a glass cockpit.

They are flooded with them in the USA still.

Hi J Boyle,

Thanks for your contribution. I agree with you on all you have said actually. If I am correct, McDonnell only focused more on the military side and Douglas more on the civil side? I will read up on the firms actually and I will reference those aircraft in my Jane’s books. And you mentioned that C-54 is facing the axe? What do you mean?? Are they scrapping them or something? I guess really Douglas was the people who made the plans and things for the MD-10s etc. McDonnell when they merged were still focused on their military side in which is why Boeing has purchased McDonnell Douglas in the first place.

It’s good to see your enthusiasm for aviation.

I’m not sure Boeing “ruined” McDD. The end of the line had come for their commercial production.
New aircraft R&D is to costly, it takes a very large group to fund it, so in the same way that EADS and Airbus are made up for formerly independent smaller firms, so it is with Boeing & McDD.
It’s the way of the world…just look at the motor industry if you need a example.

BTW: the real “old timers” say that McDonnell “ruined” Douglas when they bought the transport firm in 1967. The great aircraft you’re nostalgic about were probably Douglas aircraft, not McDonnell Douglas types.

For a concise history of the firm I’d recommend McDonnell Douglas Aircraft since 1920 by Rene Francillon published by Putnam (in either the one or the revised two volume editions) and the same author’s Douglas Propliners published by Haynes.
Francillon is a former executive with the firm and the later book has some personal comments on the group.

In the meantime, might I suggest working with a group helping to reserve a C-47 or Dakota…or perhaps one of the C-54s that are facing the axe?

A KC-10 (Dc-10 with USAF for FR ) has just flown over me (5m N of BHD time 1050z) e/r the USA. Still a number of these around.

One Douglas product I would like to see fly again is the Saturn S IVB 3rd stage!!!!

The Boeing 717 is essentially a re-badged MD-80xxx and descended from the good old Douglas DC-9.

Wiki (for it’s accuracy) indicated that Volotea in Spain and Blue1 in Finland (as well as QANTASLink in Australia) still operate them on regional runs….as well as a number of US airlines. So you might still be able to take a trip in a Douglas/MDD product.

Regards,
…geoff